Help with HSBC/Recurring payment not cancelled

curtainsplitter

Hey everyone,

I was wondering if you guys could help me out, I've had my HSBC account in my overdraft for the last 9 months and despite numerous telephone calls to HSBC and letters they refuse to refund me for a fraudulent transaction

Basically I had 3 fraudulent payments taken out via paypal in the form of debit card transactions via direct debit in May, so they were taken from a bank account linked to paypal.
I contacted HSBC in May and asked them to stop all payments via direct debit to paypal and i also cancelled the paypal direct debit they refunded me for 2 of the transactions but not the third.
I contacted the via the telephone in May and every month onwards and they informed me an investigation can take up to 6 months and to stop calling in and to allow time for the matter to be investigated. Furthermore secure emessages were also sent using My HSBC online to their team to explain that I had not had any response or received a refund.

More Importantly during these periods of time , I went into HSBC and the Buxton branch around the end of May after I still had not received any fraud declaration from themselves and in correlation to my contact and I in the HSBC Buxton branch signed a fraud declaration at this time outlining all the transactions that were unauthorized, one of which was the third transaction for £1490.
It was only now a few months later that HSBC issued me a new card.

I still did not receive any paperwork or confirmation.

After this period I heard nothing for a few weeks and complained further via telephone to HSBC in June. I was told in June that as my matter was a complaint their policy was to allow 8 weeks for an investigation and once again to stop calling in. I allowed this and in August on approximately August 12th I received a phone call from a woman at their organization stating that she had looked into my complaint and could only apologize for the timeframe it had taken regarding the transaction and that she would sanction a £50 compensation gesture to me which went into my account around this time.
She also informed me that I would be posted out a fraud declaration letter for this transaction and then refunded. I never received this transaction sheet and had to telephone HSBC again in August who said they'd post another out and to wait a few weeks, in September I still had nothing and because nothing had been done I rang them again and was told then this would be done via email.
Between this point of May- August I had also written to them and specifically their debit card/customer care team and had no response.
Instead of receiving an email with the fraud declaration sheet which I had been waiting on, I instead received a rude email from their team stating that 2 other transactions I had reported had been unauthorized as part of the paypal recurring payments I had asked to be cancelled, their organization had found to be authorized. However there was no Declaration Form attached with the email as I had been promised would be sent and instead a word document which wasn't eve correctly formatted or laid out and looked a fraudulent document.

I therefore wrote to their Coventry office and explained that it was impossible that any of the suggested transactions were authorized as neither myself or anyone in my family was called ‘Archie’ and at the ‘University of Northampton’ where these transactions had been linked to when the charges were made and were put as the billing address of the card. This has clearly never been my correspondence address and I suggested HSBC contacted University of Northampton to ascertain if I or any member of my family had ever enrolled there, and who the ‘goods’ were delivered to.

Due to the fact I was waiting for HSBC and constantly told I was mithering the organisation via telephone and they had deadlines for investigations I have been misled since may as outlined above paragraph, and I actually signed a declaration at Buxton Branch in May, I feel I had acted within my reasonable power to fulfill the VISA legislation timescale and furthermore the UK banking law states that when I inform a bank to cancel a recurring payment they must do so. I have no obligation to contact the merchant, however I did contact PayPal which I also have evidence of and they were unhelpful in resolving the matter, blaming HSBC and stating that HSBC have never contacted them, so they will never refund me. If HSBC are not prepared to adhere to Banking Retail timescale and UK banking law and deliberately delayed the matter this is an issue for Financial Ombudsman to investigate how this happened and to feed back to me why the information I provided in May and June was not acted upon swiftly by HSBC.

Is this not a breach of the recurring payments?
HSBC refuse to refund me now as they agree the transactions were fraudulent but say theres nothing they can do as it is out of the VISA dispute time. However this is because of their error (they actually sent me the right form in september only) but when i sent it back to them, said they cannot do anything as its outside of the visa dispute time. They accept that before september i wrote in numerous times asking for the payment to be cancelled and letting them know this and that i did not authorise it, but the only way a refund can be done is via their banking form and not a letter. They accept I went into the branch but they say the fax was not sent off until June therefore it was 5 weeks late from the disputed transaction and out of the visa dispute timeframe..they also say am not protected by the recurring payments law as my transactions are not direct debits but card transactions from paypal and they emailed me proof and i never responded..however i checked my emails and had noting..however they were direct debit payments taken from paypal as they took the money from my bank..do i have any legal grounds here to go to omnibudsmen? HSBC said they won't do anything more.
I went to the police, they say they don't investigate these things and go to action fraud as really its a civil dispute between the bank and me. Action fraud report made 3 months ago and nothing. Apparently i rang them and they say they only send out reports to credit ref agencies.

MPH80

Ok ... let's be clear because this is something of a rant and is difficult to pick apart.

You had 3 fradulent transactions on your account via PayPal. You then use three different ways the payments could have been done:

1) Debit card
2) Recurring transaction against the debit card
3) Direct debit.

The answer as to whether it's in breach of the recurring payments system or not depends very much on which it is.

The rest of the email is largely about the amount of time HSBC have taken to respond - so let's put that all to one side for now.

M.

curtainsplitter

I apologise. HSBC state they were debit card transactions not recurring payments and HSBC claim that ONLY direct debit recurring payments are covered therefore are not covered under this act.
However I did sign a direct debit agreement with paypal and part of this transaction (which they won't refund me) was £1490.00 my overdraft is £1000.00 and at the time this maximised my overdraft and went into it so i wondered as this is credit in essence is this not also another law that would cover the transaction in relation to credit? and recurring payment?.
I cancelled the direct debit and asked HSBC to stop any payments to paypal after the first two transactions happened. They didn't and didn't cancel my card till months later. They appear as card transactions such as 'PAYPAL ROBS CAMERAS' etc ...

curtainsplitter

Just double checked my bank statements and they all were classed as 'VISA transactions'. However they were CVV/AVS billed to another address which did not match my cards but one in northampton?also i asked for the security codes to prove i authorised the transactions and they've ignored this

MPH80

Right - so this isn't a direct debit - so there's no protection there. They are also not recurring debit card transactions - which is designed for 'you're going to pay this every year' type transactions and is a very specific programme.

These are debit card, customer not present, transactions. The same as you'd make at Amazon, eBay or any merchant who can store your payment details.

As such - they fall under standard fraud protection rules - 'was the transaction authorised by you' type questions.

So there's no breach of recurring payment rules here.

Now we've got that cleared up:

1) Were the transactions made through your paypal account or was a new account setup?

2) As a point of interest - no merchant is obliged to use either AVS or CV2 (see Amazon!) - but they will be found to be liable for fraud more often if they choose not to.

3) Your bank has to prove you made the transactions - not you have to prove you didn't. Your bank should be providing evidence that it was authorised by you and you need to pursue this.

Now - if you are now at deadlock (which you need HSBC to agree on - e.g. a stated 'we think this is the end of the matter'!) over these transactions - you can raise a formal complaint to the FOS.

They will adjudicate in this case.

But you need to now calm down and take all the emotion out of your communication with them. Write once more stating your case - it needs to be bullet points - not long winded explanations as you've given here:

"* On date x several transactions were made via paypal on my debit card that were not authorised by me - these transactions were: ...
* On date Y I attended your branch to inform them ...
* On date Z I chased your customer services ...
* On date A I wrote a letter using registered post (ref: ...) to your customer services
* On date B I received X response back.

I wish to reiterate that I did not authorise these transactions, have not received proof from your organisation that I did and under the payment services regulations 2009 wish to have these transactions refunded or receive proof that brings you to believe I did authorise these transactions."

Factual, short and non emotional. Be clear about what you want and when by. Give them reasonable time to do it and send any letters registered signed for.

M.