Private parking ticket at home address - Premier Park

Coupon-mad

What's the name of this road here, to me it looks as though your car was actually on the pavement of the public highway (you can't go by the fact there's a sign there because you can't trust Premier Park). The pavement is the same paving pattern all along, and there's no fence or barrier to delineate this footway as 'private', IMHO so you were lucky not to get a Council ticket I think:

http://i.imgur.com/UIYTI2Q.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wV5SMJS.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/u93xwbH.jpg

The sign ('says if you park contravening...so they have to show it's true pre-estimate of loss)':

http://i.imgur.com/N60iYlw.jpg

The entrance to private car park/garden:

http://i.imgur.com/iQrSzDh.jpg

You think that's clearly signed? NOPE. None of the signs face a car!!

matthruba

Orford wrote: »

Let's assume it's private land. The two conditions are:
that you display a permit
that you park in a marked bay only where present

Since there are no marked bays there, you fulfilled both conditions.

What's the alleged contravention?

That's what I am trying to work out in order to put forward the best appeal!

Coupon-mad wrote: »

What's the name of this road here, to me it looks as though your car was actually on the pavement of the public highway (you can't go by the fact there's a sign there because you can't trust PCM). The pavement is the same paving pattern all along, and there's no fence or barrier to delineate this footway as 'private', IMHO so you were lucky not to get a Council ticket I think:

The sign ('says if you park contravening...so they have to show it's true pre-estimate of loss)':

The entrance to private car park/garden:

You think that's clearly signed? NOPE. None of the signs face a car!!

The name of the road is Hannover Quay.

I suppose you are right about the signage, it's only clear when on foot facing to the side.

Coupon-mad

Bristol then - a very nice part of the UK!

Well I would send a picture of the place you parked to the Council Highways Dept (ring them up first for an email addy) and ask, 'please could you clarify':

- is this place between the building and the post, private land?

- if not, is it public highway?

- is there a Traffic Order which covers that place?

- Since it's Hannover Quay, do byelaws cover that place?

- if not private land why are Premier Park allowed to put one of their signs at that place, which looks like it is public highway?

matthruba

I do love my home city!

I've just emailed the council now so we will see what the outcome is! I'll keep you posted.

In the meantime I am waiting for the NTK letter to come through where I will reply with my 'soft appeal'. Any input on the content of this or shall I just find an example on the forum? I guess it depends on the response I get from the council.

The_Slithy_Tove

To my eye, I would guess that the public highway includes the pavement as far as the lamp-post, but from there to the building is private. That's just a guess, though.

If you were on the public highway bit, then you'd either be where there are yellow lines and loading restrictions (bad) or on the pedestrian crossing zig-zags (worse).

DCodd

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

To my eye, I would guess that the public highway includes the pavement as far as the lamp-post, but from there to the building is private. That's just a guess, though.

If you were on the public highway bit, then you'd either be where there are yellow lines and loading restrictions (bad) or on the pedestrian crossing zig-zags (worse).

It is possible that the pavement beyond the lamp post is within the boundary line of the building but they would have to prove that and show that they did not pass this area of the land over to the Local Authority. Even if the Council say it is private, the fact that this part of the land has been paved with the same materials as the Pavement / Highway suggests differently. It may be in the grey area of being unadopted (something I have had problems with in my road).

4consumerrights

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

To my eye, I would guess that the public highway includes the pavement as far as the lamp-post, but from there to the building is private. That's just a guess, though.
.

If you were parked between the building and the lamp-post then looking at the photos, I also agree with Slithy Tove -this is probably private and in line with the complex railings.

The road shown on the pictures is actually Canons Way - Hanover Quay relates to the pedestrianised side - the other side of your housing complex. Cafe Gusto (next to you) and Jacks are also classed as Hanover Quay addresses.

********************************************

- Is it private land if I am a resident of the apartment block displaying my parking permit? (I rent my flat)

Do wait for the Notice to Keeper to come. The rent you pay includes the provision for one parking space - this is included in plenty of marketing material available for the crescent. All the flats are deemed to have one undesignated parking space. You should make a formal complaint to the managing agent and your landlord that visitors are taking up parking spaces designated for residents. As a consequence you parked within the complex but not in a designated bay displaying a permit which resulted in receiving a parking charge e - therefore please instruct Premier to cancel the charge.

************************************



(By the way Bristol is my home city also and I often meet family and friends at Cafe Gusto or Jacks and one of my early jobs was working in the legal department at Lloyds bank near you):)

Coupon-mad

If you were parked between the building and the lamp-post then looking at the photos, I also agree with Slithy Tove -this is probably private and in line with the complex railings.

Maybe but we can't guess. I was reminded of Dr Dawood's case:

http://nutsville.com/2009/12/02/camden-also-has-its-petty-parking-bureaucrats/

Looks like this case in Bristol is Council pavement to me, since there is no barrier. I suspect the PPC has slapped a sign up anywhere. We shall see.

longtimelurkersam

I know that building you live in as I lived in it too and had some fun with Premier Park over the 18 months I lived there including removing a clamp from my vehicle (when it was still legal) and having to call the Police when the
Premier Park goon got very aggressive. I never actually parked on the spot where you did and recall that there was no signage there when I left in April as it was always my back up space in case I couldn’t get a spot in the main car park undergroun.

That whole Harbourside estate is covered by another PPC whose name escapes me but it is on the signs in the loading bay across the road. I do not think it is adopted by the council and had never seen a council traffic warden or the “lifting/recovery” truck on it dealing with parking issues. Bearing in mind they move vehicles to the car pound in Bristol very quickly I am sure it is not adopted otherwise they would have been there all the time as that loading bay was rife for overnight and all day parking as well (Ive used it once or twice).

I have 9 or so tickets from them on the go at the moment (including two failed POPLA’s from the early days before the wonderful MSE guys worked out the winning formula). You won’t get very far with the Residents Association or the Managing Agents and a contract of sorts was produced to POPLA. The reps and managing agents don’t give a monkeys, many of them are the posh apartment owners who have the private tandem spaces and they think they are doing the right thing. I stood up and made a stand at the AGM before I left and quite a few people were in support of what I was saying, however the managing agents promised to send the contract to me and then reneged on this promise. I guess not a lot has changed. I used to spend a lot of time in the car park tinkering with my van and would often give advice to come on to MSE to get the support needed to fight them.

As you know this is a gated community car park with entrance by key fob, unfortunately a few bad eggs took the proverbial and would park two cars in the car park meaning others had no chance to get a space. This provided a nice cash cow for Premier Park when clamping was allowed as these people had a bit more money than sense and would just accept that releasing a clamp was part of the convenience of having two cars. As you will know the guys on the ground do not have any real power despite being very nice people.

matthruba

Thanks all for your input. Slightly embarrassed that I do not know the name of the actual road I live on... no wonder the delivery person for my indian takeaway the other night got confused when I kept giving details of Hannover Quay! I've only been here a couple of months in my defence ��

Just waiting for the council to come back to me now, not sure how much use that will be but think I've got enough 'ammo' to go back with when I appeal.