We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum... Read More »
Debate House Prices
In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non MoneySaving matters are no longer permitted. This includes wider debates about general house prices, the economy and politics. As a result, we have taken the decision to keep this board permanently closed, but it remains viewable for users who may find some useful information in it. Thank you for your understanding.
Housing-A history of Britain in numbers.....
HAMISH_MCTAVISH
Posts: 28,592 Forumite
Excellent episode today on housing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/b03j5czm
Presented by Andrew Dilnot, chair of the UK Statistics Authority, with contributions from the Rowntree foundation explaining how the massive housing shortage has driven up prices.
Some interesting facts.....
-In 1861, Dundee's 90,000 inhabitants had only 5 WC-s between them. Three of which were in hotels!
-Only 150 years ago, a third of people in Scotland used to live in a house with only one room, 11' by 14', with an average of 5 people living in them.
-A further third lived in houses of only two rooms.
-In 1900 80% of homes were private rented.
-Social rented hit a high in 1980 of 31%.
-In 1931 20% of families shared their home with a second family.
-Owner occupied housing was 20% in 1911, by 2001 this had increased to 70%.
-In 1900 only 5% of households consisted of someone living alone. In 2001 this had grown to 30%.
-The number of households has trebled over the same time that the population has only doubled.
-Household formation is rising much faster than population growth, and has done for decades.
-In 1911 half of households had 2 persons per room. Today, the average is 2 rooms per person.
-In 1970, one in six houses didn't have sole use of a WC. Today it's less than one in a hundred.
Only 15 minutes long, and well worth a listen.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/b03j5czm
Presented by Andrew Dilnot, chair of the UK Statistics Authority, with contributions from the Rowntree foundation explaining how the massive housing shortage has driven up prices.
Some interesting facts.....
-In 1861, Dundee's 90,000 inhabitants had only 5 WC-s between them. Three of which were in hotels!
-Only 150 years ago, a third of people in Scotland used to live in a house with only one room, 11' by 14', with an average of 5 people living in them.
-A further third lived in houses of only two rooms.
-In 1900 80% of homes were private rented.
-Social rented hit a high in 1980 of 31%.
-In 1931 20% of families shared their home with a second family.
-Owner occupied housing was 20% in 1911, by 2001 this had increased to 70%.
-In 1900 only 5% of households consisted of someone living alone. In 2001 this had grown to 30%.
-The number of households has trebled over the same time that the population has only doubled.
-Household formation is rising much faster than population growth, and has done for decades.
-In 1911 half of households had 2 persons per room. Today, the average is 2 rooms per person.
-In 1970, one in six houses didn't have sole use of a WC. Today it's less than one in a hundred.
Only 15 minutes long, and well worth a listen.
“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”
0
Comments
-
I caught a bit of this in the car earlier today. Your post reminded me to listen to it all.
Tracking my own ancestors back through the census years, I find most of them in the 1800's living 12/13 to a house. 12 kids was extremely normal, but rare to see all of them to survive to adulthood.
Seems there aren't enough houses these days, primarily due to preferences (need?) for people to live alone or in smaller family units. Yet another factor putting up demand, and in the absense of building, putting up prices. I wonder if you agree with this, Hamish?
I like the punchline: So if we want to live alone, and are not building, then something's got to give. Currently it's price. So why do we drive the prices up? Because we can.
What was refreshing was that this appeared to be a true 'factual' analysis. Being largely historical, it escaped any normal 'editorial' from the BBC who would tend to 'blame' the government (or Thatcher) for current prices, and then, for balance, slag off the last Labour government with builders and bankers as well.0 -
Loughton_Monkey wrote: »Seems there aren't enough houses these days, primarily due to preferences (need?) for people to live alone or in smaller family units. Yet another factor putting up demand, and in the absense of building, putting up prices.
I wonder if you agree with this, Hamish?.
I do.
The long term trend is for average household size to reduce.
Leading to the requirement for housing to increase by far more than the average household size multiplied by population increase.
A very common mistake for some surprisingly well educated people to make is to overlook this key fact.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
Loughton_Monkey wrote: »What was refreshing was that this appeared to be a true 'factual' analysis. .
Indeed.
Completely apolitical. And all the better for it.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
When I first started work in the 60s I was earning £6 17s 6d a week which is equivalent of £110 now(RPI). £6 17s 6d was an exceptional wage for an apprentice the average being nearer £2.
Must have been half asleep this morning posted this on wrong thread.0 -
When I first started work in the 60s I was earning £6 17s 6d a week which is equivalent of £110 now(RPI). £6 17s 6d was an exceptional wage for an apprentice the average being nearer £2.
Remarkable how times change.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
Thanks Hamish. I've just crossed Dundee off my 'to do' list, just in case it's wrong!0
-
mystic_trev wrote: »Thanks Hamish. I've just crossed Dundee off my 'to do' list, just in case it's wrong!
:rotfl:
.........“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »-In 1931 20% of families shared their home with a second family.
It wasn't just the poor who did that, either, and it carried on after WWII. My parents were definitely middle class - both had been educated at boarding schools, he was a university lecturer, and she was a midwife turned SAHM. They bought a house (with help from parents) in 1959, but for the first few years they only lived in the downstairs, while another couple (friends of theirs) lived in the upstairs. The place wasn't divided into flats with separate entrances or anything. The upstairs couple just came through my parents' hallway every time they went in or out. They were certainly still living like that when my parents had their first child. I don't know whether there was ever a baby upstairs, though.Do you know anyone who's bereaved? Point them to https://www.AtaLoss.org which does for bereavement support what MSE does for financial services, providing links to support organisations relevant to the circumstances of the loss & the local area. (Link permitted by forum team)
Tyre performance in the wet deteriorates rapidly below about 3mm tread - change yours when they get dangerous, not just when they are nearly illegal (1.6mm).
Oh, and wear your seatbelt. My kids are only alive because they were wearing theirs when somebody else was driving in wet weather with worn tyres.
0 -
mystic_trev wrote: »Thanks Hamish. I've just crossed Dundee off my 'to do' list, just in case it's wrong!
Surely you mean doo-doo list?0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »I do.
The long term trend is for average household size to reduce.
Leading to the requirement for housing to increase by far more than the average household size multiplied by population increase.
A very common mistake for some surprisingly well educated people to make is to overlook this key fact.
Behave.
I can't think of the last time when I heard someone (this is obviously what you're getting at) bemoan what's happened to uk housing since 1911 or since 1921 or since 1931.
What I see quite often is complaints about uk housing vs. where it was in the last few decades of the 20th century and where it is in other comparable countries today.
The reasonably meaty falls in uk household size that you describe had slowed to a crawl by the time of (say) the 1991 census and have stopped altogether now.
And of course all comparable countries (say in Europe) have experienced the same trends in household size. It's hardly a uk specific thing.FACT.0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 349.9K Banking & Borrowing
- 252.7K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 453K Spending & Discounts
- 242.8K Work, Benefits & Business
- 619.7K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 176.4K Life & Family
- 255.8K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards