A salient lesson for those jumping onto financial bandwagons

MFW_ASAP

dryhat wrote: »

Ok you got me.

I'm 21 really.

Caught in a lie. I wonder if anything you have said is true?

Another salient lesson for those jumping on a bandwagon - a lot of the people telling you it's a good thing are liars, fantasists or criminals.

As a long-time MSE poster said on this thread - better to get rich slowly.

WHATAGOAL1

MFW_ASAP wrote: »

Wasn't bitcoins at their all time peak a week ago at something like 900 and now they are at 600. I feel sorry for anyone who listened to your ramping last week.

there now 1050, you still feel sorry for them now?

innovate

WHATAGOAL1 wrote: »

there now 1050, you still feel sorry for them now?

Assuming "there now 1050" means that 1 bitcoin in now £1,050, perhaps you should be checking a few more web pages about the actual exchange rate - assuming you can indeed reliably exchange bitcoins for real money.

Googling tonight's value, it looks it is more like USD 935.60, which is a far cry from £1,050, or even USD 1,050.


If "there now 1050" means something different, please elaborate.

GreenTricky

innovate wrote: »

Assuming "there now 1050" means that 1 bitcoin in now £1,050, perhaps you should be checking a few more web pages about the actual exchange rate - assuming you can indeed reliably exchange bitcoins for real money.

Googling tonight's value, it looks it is more like USD 935.60, which is a far cry from £1,050, or even USD 1,050.


If "there now 1050" means something different, please elaborate.

I think he is quoting a dollar price, while you were a pound. I see they are currently 1070 USD on mtgox or £655.

JohnRo

Fixation on the dollar price gives a false sense of what is happening in the bitcoin universe.

The flat earth society are obviously smarting that hysterical claims haven't come to pass but there's always time, and the hope to cling to that governments will simply make it so.

bowlhead99

GreenTricky wrote: »

I think he is quoting a dollar price, while you were a pound. I see they are currently 1070 USD on mtgox or £655.

Yes the reference to them falling from an intraday spike of 900 to a closing price of 600 in under a week was a comment made in the third week of November, and the mentioned price was in dollars. They also fell from $900 to $600 during the second week of December. In between, over the week from 2-9 December, they fell from $1200 to $700.

Clearly you can lose a lot of money in no time at all in this sort of market, but on the other side of the coin (sorry for horrendous pun), there are people making money too (given all these drops mentioned were after it had spiked upwards).

No denying there is money being made out there, and in huge amounts by early adopters, but I'm guessing that on fundamentals the swift exponential gain from $10 - $1200 is not going to be repeated in the same time frame from $1200- $144000.

At the moment, most of the world's assets are NOT bitcoins, so while SOME have made great money out of very modest initial money, and might be able to afford a car or a house or any number of gadgets that they wouldn't otherwise have afforded, the vast majority of us are unaffected because it isn't enough to change the going price for cars or houses or gadgets. So if we don't want to hold assets that continually swing up or down 50% over a couple of days, we don't have to.

It says something about the maturity of some of the people playing in this pool that, like gold bugs and silver bugs before them, they love to rub it in peoples faces when they make money. "Hah, I made money and you didn't, how are you feeling now, shouldn't you have listened to me, ahh, you're all idiots for not doing what I do!". Except, they would probably have said "your all idiots" because they have the IQ and eloquence of a 12-year old.

This type of egotistical self-promotion and ramping on web boards and forums IMHO is one of the reasons why it is still seen as something of a fad enjoyed by kids and geeks, rather than a credible (albeit volatile) mainstream investment.

Not meaning to offend some of the more competent posters who happen to hold bitcoins amongst other things they do with their lives. And it is interesting to hear the background of it, landmark events (not simple dollar fluctuation but adoption or rejection by governments and stores etc) and what it was that made a particular person jump aboard.

But as a niche investment, those who have a vested interest in generating interest in it on a public forum (and therefore a price ramp) should understand that anything positive they say is always going to be met with a healthy dose of scepticism because that's how investors should always approach any new opportunity from someone with a vested interest in getting others involved. Someone selling snake oil as a miracle drug, for example, and talking it up no end. It might of course be a miracle drug but you would be dumb to jump on the bandwagon and buy some yourself to sell on, without first challenging and critically evaluating its properties.

dryhat

JohnRo wrote: »

Fixation on the dollar price gives a false sense of what is happening in the bitcoin universe.

The flat earth society are obviously smarting that hysterical claims haven't come to pass but there's always time, and the hope to cling to that governments will simply make it so.

The rising price seems to be the only thing that makes the mainstream news and the only thing that receives any attention when reporting anything about Bitcoin.

However, there are lots of exciting developments happening in Bitcoin at the moment that the mainstream media are not reporting.

People still don't seem able to recognise the potential of this ground-breaking technology even as it continues to infiltrate and disrupt all sectors of the economy.

The 20% rise over the past 4 days is based on solid fundamentals and 2014 looks set to be another great year for Bitcoin the invention and bitcoins the currency.

Jegersmart

As usual, this thread is full of people with closed minds and who relate everything back to what they "know", or think they "know" and resort to ridicule when confronted with views different to their own.

In the case of Bitcoins, with its limited history - their vitriol is even more obvious and ridiculous. The fact is that no one knows what a Bitcoin may or may not be worth in the future or even if it will survive. Some of us that are investing time and money into crypto currencies do so because we want to support the rise of a non-centralised currency for our own benefit in the future not just because it may be lucrative in the future.

I am highly skeptical of people who use the word "ramper" in their posts, because whatever that term is applied to suggests the user has already decided and dismissed a certain activity for whatever reason. That sort of closed-mindedness is my biggest fear. In any case, the definition of "ramper" should also be called into question. I haven't seen any "OMG buy bitcoins now before you miss out" posts - but some of us are interested in debating this new phenomenon. Yes, I would suggest that Bitcoin should be looked at as an investment but only if it fits in with your own thinking and strategy - but I do suggest that this type of system could have a lot of benefits for *all* in the future regardless of whether it is an investment or not.

Someone earlier in the thread said "bitcoin is not even regulated by a central bank" or words to that effect as a criticism! Wow, that is one of the main reasons I am interested in it.....but I would have liked to see some expansion on that statement from the individual because I am interested in their view - not just the disparaging comments that are so rife on here without and reason or debate.....

Linton, thanks for your comment. Obviously you are also making a lot of assumptions there - however on the point of other cryptocurrencies - there are many and I do think these will be a necessity as well. Interestingly, I find that in relation to Bitcoins I am also puzzled why there should be a finite number of units in existence if it is to be used as a currency. That is why I have been likening Bitcoin to gold more than anything else. There are other coins which are designed around a possibly infinite number of coins, to increase by around 2% per year. These would seem more like a currency to me...and I mine these along with others currently.

We will see what the future brings, hopefully most people on here can start to open their minds and debate like adults instead of getting angry like children who did not get their Saturday night sweeties. Although that seems less likely than Bitcoin going to £25k each - but I live in hope.....

J

JohnRo

Some of us that are investing time and money into crypto currencies do so because we want to support the rise of a non-centralised currency for our own benefit in the future not just because it may be lucrative in the future.

I'd go further and say for everyone's benefit eventually, whether they realise it at this stage or not. Few seem to realise how powerful the btc protocol is and what potential there is for a globally integrated, totally transparent transaction ledger with complete equity and integrity.

There are some major technology hurdles ahead before widespread mainstream adoption begins to look even remotely possible but things are accelerating in that direction.

It's obviously a process that'll be decades in the making and carries a considerable risk that the money printing crooks empowered to corrupt, manipulate and defraud will force their captured governments to try either closing it down or stealing it to their advantage. Interesting times.

MFW_ASAP

Jegersmart wrote: »

I haven't seen any "OMG buy bitcoins now before you miss out" posts - but some of us are interested in debating this new phenomenon.

This thread was originally created on the House Price and Economy discussion board and was a direct response to dryhat's ramping on there. At one point he was posting about the rise of bitcoins in every house price thread, and encouraging people to invest in bitcoins instead of buying a property. We suggested he post on here (where this thread was eventually moved) as it was a more appropriate board for investment/speculation, but to no avail. Indeed our protestations seemed to just encourage him.

Though he seems to have stopped posting in there for now, going silent when bitcoins halved in value. I suppose we'll have to endure him again now that they have gone back up again. We saw this a lot on the House Price board with the Precious Metal rampers. They vanished when the price (and their profits) collapsed.

Yes, we know about bitcoins, Gold, Silver and lots of other commodities/asset classes on the Housing boards, but if we want to discuss them then we go to the appropriate boards. We don't swamp the Competition Board with talk about house price crashes and would appreciate the same consideration.