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Failure to notify of driver & insurance issues
Hi everyone,
A friend of mine runs a construction company that operates a number of cars and vans so has a special insurance policy to cover them, anyone driving them (with his consent), and also covers him to drive any vehicle with the owner's consent. He has had two issues -
1. A few months back, one of his employees clipped a car's wing mirror while driving one of the vans. He didn't stop and the vehicle was reported to police for failure to stop. The police contacted my friend asking who was driving the van at the time. My friend stated that it could have been one of up to 20 people who were working for him at the time. He had some trouble finding out who it was and ran out of time to tell the police, who then slapped a 'failure to notify driver details' on him.
For this he received six points on his licence. He subsequently found out who was driving after tracing a receipt from the day of the accident and going to the shop the receipt was issued from, where the driver's identity was confirmed. At present I am not sure whether he then tried to contact the DVLA or police - was it too late by then? can penalty points/convictions be challenged once new evidence comes to light?
2. Then more recently the same friend was stopped by police while driving his wife's car. The police said the car had no insurance registered, which later turned out to be correct - down to his wife not renewing the insurance in time. The traffic policeman at the time accepted that it was just an oversight on his wife's behalf, but the local police then pressed for a prosecution several weeks down the line.
The police/cps/dvla (not entirely sure) want to prosecute him for driving without insurance, which will add another six points and mean he will lose his licence making it very hard for him to work.
I would have thought his company insurance would still have covered him for this. I know that the car you're driving usually has to be insured by someone, and his wife's car wasn't on his company policy and had expired on her policy, but it does not state anywhere on the insurance certificate that the car being driven must be named on any insurance policy - it also doesn't say anything about a car needing MOT or tax strangely.
What I really need to know in respect of case 1 is, can he not speak to whoever issued the fine/prosecution/points for the 'failure to notify driver details' to appeal or have the decision eased or revoked?
...and in respect of case 2, if the company insurance is not sufficient, is six points the best case scenario, or can some kind of lesser sentence based upon the officer's acceptance that it was a genuine mistake, be worked out.
...AND... in both cases, will the importance of driving to his work be taken into consideration? He and his wife are genuinely the victims of oversight and/or bureaucracy rather than anything deliberately criminal or negligent on their parts.
Obviously, I advised they take up the services of a solicitor.
Any help greatly appreciated
A friend of mine runs a construction company that operates a number of cars and vans so has a special insurance policy to cover them, anyone driving them (with his consent), and also covers him to drive any vehicle with the owner's consent. He has had two issues -
1. A few months back, one of his employees clipped a car's wing mirror while driving one of the vans. He didn't stop and the vehicle was reported to police for failure to stop. The police contacted my friend asking who was driving the van at the time. My friend stated that it could have been one of up to 20 people who were working for him at the time. He had some trouble finding out who it was and ran out of time to tell the police, who then slapped a 'failure to notify driver details' on him.
For this he received six points on his licence. He subsequently found out who was driving after tracing a receipt from the day of the accident and going to the shop the receipt was issued from, where the driver's identity was confirmed. At present I am not sure whether he then tried to contact the DVLA or police - was it too late by then? can penalty points/convictions be challenged once new evidence comes to light?
2. Then more recently the same friend was stopped by police while driving his wife's car. The police said the car had no insurance registered, which later turned out to be correct - down to his wife not renewing the insurance in time. The traffic policeman at the time accepted that it was just an oversight on his wife's behalf, but the local police then pressed for a prosecution several weeks down the line.
The police/cps/dvla (not entirely sure) want to prosecute him for driving without insurance, which will add another six points and mean he will lose his licence making it very hard for him to work.
I would have thought his company insurance would still have covered him for this. I know that the car you're driving usually has to be insured by someone, and his wife's car wasn't on his company policy and had expired on her policy, but it does not state anywhere on the insurance certificate that the car being driven must be named on any insurance policy - it also doesn't say anything about a car needing MOT or tax strangely.
What I really need to know in respect of case 1 is, can he not speak to whoever issued the fine/prosecution/points for the 'failure to notify driver details' to appeal or have the decision eased or revoked?
...and in respect of case 2, if the company insurance is not sufficient, is six points the best case scenario, or can some kind of lesser sentence based upon the officer's acceptance that it was a genuine mistake, be worked out.
...AND... in both cases, will the importance of driving to his work be taken into consideration? He and his wife are genuinely the victims of oversight and/or bureaucracy rather than anything deliberately criminal or negligent on their parts.
Obviously, I advised they take up the services of a solicitor.
Any help greatly appreciated
0
Comments
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The law will allow X amount of days to name the driver, and if you fail to name the driver within that time then you are guilty of failing to notify regardless.
Maybe he should do what most companies do and start keeping a driver log so who knows who has what vehicle on what day.
As far as the insurance goes, if he is driving someone else's car on the DOC extension, then that car has to be insured in it's own right for the DOC cover to be valid.
He may be able to avoid an automatic ban on hardship grounds, but he is going to have to be able to prove a significant hardship in order to win that one (simply claiming he won't be able to drive to work won't cut any ice).
Points wise, no insurance is a minimum 6 points so he won't be getting a reduction.Understeer is when you hit a wall with the front of your car
Oversteer is when you hit a wall with the back of your car
Horsepower is how fast your car hits the wall
Torque is how far your car sends the wall across the field once you've hit it0 -
Quiet_Spark wrote: »The law will allow X amount of days to name the driver, and if you fail to name the driver within that time then you are guilty of failing to notify regardless.
Maybe he should do what most companies do and start keeping a driver log so who knows who has what vehicle on what day.
As far as the insurance goes, if he is driving someone else's car on the DOC extension, then that car has to be insured in it's own right for the DOC cover to be valid.
He may be able to avoid an automatic ban on hardship grounds, but he is going to have to be able to prove a significant hardship in order to win that one (simply claiming he won't be able to drive to work won't cut any ice).
Points wise, no insurance is a minimum 6 points so he won't be getting a reduction.
Not necessarily - not all doc cover requires the vehicle to be insured in its own right. Op You really need to get hold of the certificate for the exact wording.0 -
Quiet_Spark wrote: »As far as the insurance goes, if he is driving someone else's car on the DOC extension, then that car has to be insured in it's own right for the DOC cover to be valid.
For the 15 millionth time, that is NOT aways the case.
Some policies (mine included) still do NOT require the car being driven to have it's own cover. If it doesn't say it on the certificate (or at least in the full policy documents, IF those are referred to on the certificate) then it isn't a requirement.
eta: beaten to it while distracted by facebook
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Quiet Spark - if 'companies' are required to keep logs then why is he facing points on his personal driving licence?
FlameCloud - I will post exact wording from certificate tomorrow
Thank you both for the response0 -
There is no requirement for companies to keep vehicle logs, but if he had done then he would have been able to identify the driver in the time allowed and wouldn't have copped 6 points for failure to notify.Quiet Spark - if 'companies' are required to keep logs then why is he facing points on his personal driving licence?
Although everybody's driving licence is "personal" to them, there is no such thing as a "personal driving licence".
If it transpires that his insurance does not require a borrowed vehicle to be insured in it's own right, then all he has to do is go to court with the relevant paperwork to prove and he will be found not guilty.Understeer is when you hit a wall with the front of your car
Oversteer is when you hit a wall with the back of your car
Horsepower is how fast your car hits the wall
Torque is how far your car sends the wall across the field once you've hit it0 -
He is repsonsible because its his company or he is responsible for the transport arrangements.
He should be keeping track of who drives what and when. Even if a driver moves the vehicle it needs to be recorded.
He failed to do that so they hold him responsible.
I think you need to read the certificate again. Bound to mention what is and is not insured.
A family vehicle that doesnt belong to the business and not insured in its own right is highly likely to be excluded.
As Joe says its not always the case that the vehicle must be insured. My policy changed a year or so back to state that any vehicle must be insured for me to drive it 3rd party.
There maybe more to come also. Non insured vehicles should be declared SORN. It wasnt and caught on the road.
So there is a chance of DVLA fines also.Censorship Reigns Supreme in Troll City...0 -
Quiet Spark - I kind of meant... How can the company negligence impact on the boss's driving licence? If a Virgin Airlines chauffeur fails to stop after a crash, Richard Branson doesn't get hit with points.
If the responsibility is different for an individual or a company, then surely it should be prosecuted differently too? You can't give points to a company.
Also, keeping track of several vans between a number of different sites is tricky for a small construction firm. Simply keeping a log wouldn't work as each site would require a simultaneously updated record.0 -
Quiet Spark - I kind of meant... How can the company negligence impact on the boss's driving licence? If a Virgin Airlines chauffeur fails to stop after a crash, Richard Branson doesn't get hit with points
The boss was responsible for the company transport, and because he failed to name the driver in the time allowed (28 days I believe), the boss was then guilty of "fail to notify" which carries the same penalty as no insurance.
Richard Branson won't get penalised because he isn't responsible for his company transport, that is down to the transport manager (in this case, your friend).
If your friend had employed a dedicated transport manager, then it would have been them getting the points instead of your friend.Understeer is when you hit a wall with the front of your car
Oversteer is when you hit a wall with the back of your car
Horsepower is how fast your car hits the wall
Torque is how far your car sends the wall across the field once you've hit it0 -
So what happens if the person responsible for company transport doesn't drive?0
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Surely in a company situation he'd be covered by some kind of limited liability just like he would be if the company owed money?
Would Virgin's transport manager really get six points on his/her licence in such a scenario??0
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