Query regarding POFA 2012

KillerSquid

Hi all,

I have read the information for newbies, and from there read section 9 of the POFA 2012.

I have today received a PCN from Smart Parking relating to contravening Free Time at a local ASDA store.

I note that POFA 2012 section 9 (2) b states that the notice must "inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full;"

The letter that I have received states that "If you were not the driver of the vehicle and you wish to provide the drivers details.....". To my mind, this does not constitute a statement that the driver, as opposed to the registered keeper, is required to pay the charge. Am I correct in thinking this?

Finally, can the parking regulations on private land still be enforced when the store in question is closed (i.e. out of business hours, not closed down)?

Many thanks for any assistance,

KillerSquid

jeanraffio

KillerSquid wrote: »

Hi all,

I have read the information for newbies, and from there read section 9 of the POFA 2012.

I have today received a PCN from Smart Parking relating to contravening Free Time at a local ASDA store.

I note that POFA 2012 section 9 (2) b states that the notice must "inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full;"

The letter that I have received states that "If you were not the driver of the vehicle and you wish to provide the drivers details.....". To my mind, this does not constitute a statement that the driver, as opposed to the registered keeper, is required to pay the charge. Am I correct in thinking this?

Finally, can the parking regulations on private land still be enforced when the store in question is closed (i.e. out of business hours, not closed down)?

Many thanks for any assistance,

KillerSquid

The advice is simple, you are not legally required to name the driver - so don't. I don't fully understand what you're asking but that is the approach.

And yes, they can enforce outside of business hours.

KillerSquid

jeanraffio wrote: »

The advice is simple, you are not legally required to name the driver - so don't. I don't fully understand what you're asking but that is the approach.

And yes, they can enforce outside of business hours.

Hi Jeanraffio,

Thanks for the quick reply. My question was whether the letter constitutes a legally valid Notice to Keeper if it does not make clear that it is the driver who is liable for the payment of the charge outstanding?

There seems to be no mention at all on the letter that I have received that states who is obliged to pay.

Cheers,

KillerSquid

bod1467

Maybe I'm not understanding right, but I thought PoFA 2012 allows PPCs to chase RKs in place of drivers? The RKs can then absolve themselves of any liability by naming the drivers, or they can appeal in their own rights.

KillerSquid

bod1467 wrote: »

Maybe I'm not understanding right, but I thought PoFA 2012 allows PPCs to chase RKs in place of drivers? The RKs can then absolve themselves of any liability by naming the drivers, or they can appeal in their own rights.

Hi Bod,

My question is more around whether the letter received is legally valid as a Notice to Keeper, as to my eyes, it does not comply with section 9 (2) b or 9 (2) e of the POFA 2012?

I'm hoping that I will therefore be able to simply reply to them stating that I do not believe that their letter is a legally valid document under the terms of POFA 2012, and that I will consequently be ignoring it - not sure if this has been tried before, and what the results have been?

Cheers,

KillerSquid

Coupon-mad

I think you are right, KillerSquid. The wording MUST be there but do not say you will ignore it.

I got a Smart Parking NTK easily cancelled for a friend online (who had a NTK which followed a Smart windscreen ticket she'd ignored) within 48 hours by simply saying (more or less):

'I am the registered keeper, you have made no loss and I will complain to Asda if you pursue this. In addition your Notice to Keeper is flawed in wording, not compliant with POFA 2012 Schedule 4 and I will happily point that out to POPLA if you reject my appeal'.

They didn't reject it!

KillerSquid

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I think you are right, KillerSquid. The wording MUST be there but do not say you will ignore it.

I got a Smart Parking NTK easily cancelled for a friend online (who had a NTK which followed a Smart windscreen ticket she'd ignored) within 48 hours by simply saying (more or less):

'I am the registered keeper, you have made no loss and I will complain to Asda if you pursue this. In addition your Notice to Keeper is flawed in wording, not compliant with POFA 2012 Schedule 4 and I will happily point that out to POPLA if you reject my appeal'.

They didn't reject it!

Hi C-M,

Thanks for the advice. I am currently drafting a reply, and just waiting for a chance to go back to the car park to have a detailed look at the signage to clarify a few points.

I will let you know how I get on.

Cheers,

KillerSquid

bargepole

To be compliant with POFA 2012, the notice must inform the keeper that the driver is liable, and invite the keeper to either pay, or provide an address for the driver. It must also warn the keeper that if the driver's details are not provided within 28 days, the PPC can pursue the keeper for the charge (provided all other requirements are satisfied).

So your best bet is to appeal to the PPC requesting cancellation of the charge based on non-compliance of their NTK, and add that should they decline your appeal, you require a 10-digit code to make an appeal to POPLA.

There's tons of info on here about how to make sure you win your POPLA appeal.

spacey2012

I would not worry about POFA.
These people almost OWN the law as they have money.

What you should do is a soft appeal to the parking company and then a hard appeal to POPLA on a point they have backed themselves in to a corner over about no contract to pursue and not pre estimate of loss and let popla chuck it out.

KillerSquid

I'm back again.

Unfortunately, work travel and other issues meant that I never finished my soft appeal letter to Smart Parking. It is therefore too late to go down the soft appeal / POPLA route.

A while ago, I received my first letter from Debt Recovery Plus, so is the advice now to continue to ignore this, or have I left it too late to do anything else but pay up? I do note that the letter names Smart Parking as the creditor (I would have thought that the creditor would have been the ASDA store?)

Many thanks,

killersquid

Redx

this thread tells you all you need to know https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822