H0riz0n Parking ticket, what's next?

tidegu

LOL

Do you have any template to suggest? Thanks!

Coupon-mad

Easy one - they don't invoke POFA 2012 so there is no keeper liability with this one. Just send the template first appeal that is in the top thread 'NEWBIES read this first'.

By the way, is the back page blank, if not please show it to us (small print is important).

tidegu

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Easy one - they don't invoke POFA 2012 so there is no keeper liability with this one. Just send the template first appeal that is in the top thread 'NEWBIES read this first'.

By the way, is the back page blank, if not please show it to us (small print is important).

Hi CM, do you mean this one? Could you please help me to write the point 4 regard to late NTK? I am not native English speaker, not sure how to write it correct and very afraid if I write it in an informal way......

Dear {company name of this member of ''PPC World''},

PCN number xxxxxxx
As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass

Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:

- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.

- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.

- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).

Take formal note:

(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.

(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.

(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.

By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.

Yours,

{the registered keeper's name}

Coupon-mad

4) There is no keeper liability in this case, because you did not follow the deadlines nor the statutory wording from Schedule 4 of POFA 2012. As keeper I am entitled to appeal to POPLA and you have no prospects of success.

tidegu

Coupon-mad wrote: »

4) There is no keeper liability in this case, because you did not follow the deadlines nor the statutory wording from Schedule 4 of POFA 2012. As keeper I am entitled to appeal to POPLA and you have no prospects of success.

Thanks and many many thanks!!

tidegu

Hi CM & others,

Just INB4 sending the appeal, I checked their photo evidence online, I had the permit displayed on the windscreen, although the expire date wasn't visible (maybe it was why they say "Not displaying a valid permit"?). Should I include this point as well? Do they actually argue about permit was inserted too deep into the windscreen that let the expire date invisible?

{image deleted}

Also, I read different suggestions about sending the letter, someone suggests a signed for and someone suggests a proof of post is better as those companies will possibly not sign the letters. I kind agree signed for is not the best idea but does proof of delivery sufficient? Also, I'm thinking to send both letter and email, should I include some wording in the letter and email saying I will send email/letter as well? If yes, well and what to put is the best?

And another question, is there any time frame for POPLA? Have I lost the chance to POPLA due to the late NTK? Thanks!

Not sure if I am over careful, it is my first time dealing with them. Many many thanks!

Coupon-mad

I would add a point #5 that 'Your own photos show the permit in the windscreen clearly visible on the dashboard so there was no contravention of terms'. Do not mention the expiry date and do not send that particular photo (po any, as they have their photos of course!).

A free certificate of posting is sufficient, or send it by email if that is offered on the NTK as a method of appeal. No need to post, if email is allowed by H0riz0n.

POPLA deadline of 28 days to use the POPLA code, only runs from the date that the PPC reject your appeal, so you are not even in that timeframe yet. You are not too late.

tidegu

Thanks, CM, again

I'll send it off tomorrow and will update if any further response

tidegu

Following the kind suggestions by CM, with adding point 4) and 5), I sent both email and post appeal to them, and received their email response.

They did neither withdraw nor reject the appeal, but saying they are "prepared to reconsider the status of this Notice should we receive evidence of your claim. However, until such time as this evidence is received this Notice will continue to remain outstanding."

They're asking me to provide a copy of the permit within 14 days, before they revise the payable amount.

It was a temporary permit and I have disposed it (who will expect they send the NTK after almost 5 months!). I could not send them the permit obviously.

What should I do now? Should I tell them I don't have it any more? Should I emphasis on driver/keeper liability and refuse to provide? Should I say they are too late and refuse to provide? Should I just ignore? or... ?

Thanks in advance!

Coupon-mad

Don't ignore a PPC. State again that 'Your own photos show the permit in the windscreen clearly visible on the dashboard and after 5 months why in the World would you expect me to have kept that temporary permit? I ask again, kindly cancel the PCN, or give me a POPLA code so this can be properly resolved. Don't insult me with a silly reduced charge 'offer' because I have incurred expenses myself in replying to this unjustified PCN. I suggest we call it quits and you cancel it if you refuse to provide me with a POPLA code. If you do neither, and attempt to pursue any sum, you will be reported to Trading Standards, the BPA, the DVLA and your client at that car park. '