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Another APCOA fine thread

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Hi all,

Recently been going through this forum but still a bit unsure on a few things, so taking the advice from "read here first" post I'm starting a new thread.

Recently my other half parked in "half" of a car park space at a train station. This was due to the fact that there were no other spaces available at the time and she needed to catch a train. Although she was only half in a space, she was not blocking any other cars/entry points etc. When we returned to the vehicle however there was a ticket on the windscreen stating that a parking attendant had "reasonable cause to believe that the following contravention had occurred:
04 - not parked in a designated parking area"


Now what I'm not sure on is
a) should we appeal, she was only parked in half a space but it wasn't anywhere that could have been obstructive, so seems a bit over zealous.

b) Are the templates in this forum generic enough for use in this scenario?

c) Although there is a parking attendant's number on the ticket they haven't signed or initialled the ticket (not sure if this is required)

d) The fine is for £75 but they state it will be £50 if paid within 14 days. Now as far as I understand it, it should be a minimum of 40% discount in these case making the payment £45 not £50. So either way I believe I should report them to the BPA. But is this grounds to get the fine waivered?

e) From what else I can gather, they should mention who this payment is being collected for? The ticket only mentions APCOA and doesn't mention anything about the rail station and who the money is for (payments are made to APCOA). Obviously the location is on the ticket, but it doesn't say who the money would go to. (Not sure if I've misunderstood this bit when reading previous posts)

Any help/advice is appreciated.

Kind regards
«134

Comments

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,776 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Too soon to appeal, as you will read here:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

    I know you said you'd read it - but the windscreen ticket isn't the time to appeal.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Guys_Dad
    Guys_Dad Posts: 11,025 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    You have read a bit then as you know about the 40%. Read a bit more and you will be in good shape to appeal when you get the NtK.

    Also, keep an eye out for when you get it. If under POFA, then it has to be 28 - 56 days after event.

    But relax till then.
  • Thanks for the replies. I guess I'm just worried about not replying and getting hit having to pay the full fine or more if I wait and then lose any appeal.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,776 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    WRONG - it's not even a fine! Don't worry.

    We win at POPLA stage 100% of the time right now - trust us. Don't throw away your best appeal points as keeper just because you're nervous and itching to appeal.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Hi again,

    So we received the Notice to Owner/Keeper today (day 40) so it is within the timescales outlined. I've been reading through the newbie thread but still a bit confused. The NTK includes pictures of the car not parked fully in the space (though it also shows it is clearly not obstructing any pathways/access as well). The 'Contravention' is listed as '04 - not parked in a designated parking area'

    I use the station daily so they are already getting rail fares of me, and my other half used it on the day in question and paid for parking (so no loss of earnings). I believe she paid via card on one of these "phone to pay" stations for the car park so not sure if they could almost prove she was the driver based on this? Is it a bit too obvious that if someone used the train station and parked there then they must be the driver? (Got this from the idea of people contesting shopping centre charges)

    section 8.2.g states "g)inform the keeper of any discount offered for prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;"

    They've informed me of the complaints procedure, but they've not mentioned anything about discount for prompt payment to me as the registered keeper, though it was on the original PCN

    The only other concern I have is around timescales. I'm due to be away soon and worried that I might fall fail of the 28 days rules (unless I can be clever with postage to drag it out)

    Any thoughts/advice about how to structure an appeal would be greatly appreciated
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,776 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 18 December 2013 at 10:33PM
    ''Is it a bit too obvious that if someone used the train station and parked there then they must be the driver?''


    Nope because the registered keeper is going to write the appeal, talking about 'the driver' only in the third person. Lots of people use stations and the PPC wont be checking CCTV or train ticket records!

    I suspect that the APCOA Notice to Keeper doesn't mention POFA 2012 or 'registered keeper liability' but can you confirm that it doesn't?

    If not then your challenge could be that:




    'I am the registered keeper and this is my appeal. I am not liable as I was not driving, and you have failed to send a NTK which complies with POFA 2012. No 'registered keeper liability' can be established in this case anyway since it was a railway station where statutory byelaws take precedence and as such this is not 'relevant land' under POFA 2012. However, I am fully aware that I am allowed to appeal to POPLA and am not obliged to name the driver. For your information the driver did pay and display, the contravention did not occur and there has been no loss caused to APCOA nor to the landowner/TOC.

    I invite you to cancel this ticket immediately. If you decide to send me a POPLA code I will appeal robustly of course, and I will charge you for my time from now on. I reiterate that without POFA2012 to rely upon you have no case against a registered keeper in these circumstances where I was not driving, so you cannot win at POPLA.

    TAKE FORMAL NOTE:
    If you do reject the challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my expenses from you. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. And I will keep a record of my own time spent on this matter after today, at a court rate of £18 per hour. By continuing to pursue me you agree to pay these costs when I prevail.

    yours,
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Hi,

    Nope the letter doesn't mention POFA 2012 at all and the only time when it mentions a "statement of liability" is in a paragraph with respect to hire companies.

    Thanks for the wording above. What I'm not sure on is the fact that the Contravention was for not parking in a designated space, and as I stated previously the car wasn't fully in a space and they have pictures to that effect. So would I be better off altering this line

    "For your information the driver did pay and display, the contravention did not occur and there has been no loss caused to APCOA nor to the landowner/TOC"

    e.g

    "For your information the driver did pay and display and there has been no loss caused to APCOA nor to the landowner/TOC"

    Sorry I must be a pain questioning all the details, but I guess I'm one of life's worriers

    thanks again
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 151,776 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    You can get rid of ''the contravention did not occur'' if you wish, no probs. That's actually standard wording when appealing a REAL PCN from a Council and it doesn't mean you are 'denying it ever happened'. It just means you are denying liability for any contravention.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • So I sent the letter off and hadn't heard from APCOA at all. Today we received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus saying that they matter has been referred to them by APCOA and I basically now have 2 weeks to pay and even bigger fine. No acknowledgement from APCOA what so ever.

    Should I write another letter to APCOA this time using recorded delivery and also inform them I want the recorded delivery charge paid with a copy of the initial letter?

    Thanks
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    no, you put in a strong letter of complaint to the BPA and DVLA as per the newbies sticky thread , post #6 - COMPLAINTS

    and it still isnt a fine, so stop calling it that, its a parking charge and always will be , it wasnt , isnt and never will be a fine , only a court or a judge can fine you
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