UK Parking Control Fine - Help

4consumerrights

'I am the registered keeper of registration no xxxxx and I acknowledge receipt of your document entitled Notice to Keeper dated XX/11/13...'

Thanks C-M - that reads and flows better than my previous suggestion.

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RivMix - has your friend received any parking charge notices at all in the time (s)he's been there?

My argument is that I was parked in a tenants space with permission however in his tenancy contract there is no mention regarding having a residents permit or UKPC regulating the parking.

If there is nothing in your friend's tenancy agreement regarding permits then it looks like the landlord of the flat has not agreed to UKPC mis- managing the car park. Your friend could make a complaint to his/her landlord regarding this matter and the local rent officer at the council could be involved - there are specific laws regarding the harassment of tenants and their rights of peaceful enjoyment.

It would have been the managing agent who brought in the "services" of UKPC - however they are there merely to look after the upkeep of communal areas and collect maintenance fees etc. Managing agents do not normally have any proprietary interest in the property - unless it is self-managed or very rarely freeholders. The landlord has a propriety interest, the freeholder of the whole complex does, a tenant has the conveyed rights under tenancy AST agreements - UKPC HAS NO PROPRIETARY INTEREST.

rivmix

Hi,

Thanks I had already sent a letter with my original final draft but have just sent a updated one electronically on their website so that they can't try to say they didn't received it. -having just done this it's informed me they will take up to 35 days to respond!

4consumerrights - Good point-He hasn't received anything from UKPC and his contract only states that the flat is allowed to make use of X parking space.
If they continue to pursue me after my appeal I will make sure I/he lets the council know!

Will update on the next letter.. if they send one!

Thanks for your help.

rivmix

Hi,

I have now received a response to my appeal letter, link below:

http://postimg.org/image/m624pbton/

I'm not sure if this addresses all the points in my letter but doesnt seem to reject what was said more an attempt to get me to pay a reduced rate of £50.

Are they right to say that they are the client?

The tenants contract is between tenant and the landlord, not the building management.

Should I bother replying to this or just leave it now?

Thanks

bod1467

Their client is whoever engaged them to manage (yeah right) the parking at that location.

ezerscrooge

Looks like you need to demand your POPLA code from them. I'd be letting the BPA know that they have rejected your appeal and have not provided the code.

Let the PPC know that they have a choice -

1. to cancel the charge
2. to provide the POPLA code (upon which you will appeal to POPLA and, when successful, UKPC will be liable for your costs)

rivmix

Excellent , thanks.

Coupon-mad

Are you certain there is no POPLA form printed on the back page? If not just send them a reply that cites the recent email from the BPA which went to ALL AOS members:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64443274#Comment_64443274

And report them to the BPA and DVLA by email as well, for breach.

rivmix

Hi,

Yes, there was definatly no POPLA code with their response.

I haven't responded to the PPC yet but have complained to the DVLA and BPA.

DVLA's reponse:

"I should clarify that the Agency does not issue guidelines to which private car parking enforcement companies must adhere. The Code of Practice was a voluntary arrangement designed to promote best practice amongst car parking companies. It was not introduced under statute and as a consequence could not be enforced. Non compliance of the terms of the Code of Practice could not be used as a reason for denying access to information. Access to vehicle keeper information is considered on whether an enquirer meets the ‘reasonable cause’ provisions in regulations.

Technological advances have enabled many companies to employ ANPR style enforcement, these companies may issue tickets through the post rather than place onto a vehicle. Whilst it is recognised best practice that companies should include a note on signs (when entering car parks) to advise motorists that remote monitoring is in operation this is not compulsory and the Agency would not reject an application solely because this was not included. Most companies monitor car parks 24 hours a day.

Whilst seeking to ensure that vehicle information is only released in appropriate circumstances the Agency cannot arbitrate in disputes between parties. Representation about circumstances relating to an incident or the wording on a penalty charge notice or signs should be made directly to the company."

BPA's Response:
"I can confirm that UK Parking Control Ltd is a Member of the BPA’s Approved Operator Scheme (AOS) which was developed to bring a degree of regulation to an industry without primary legislation. However, we are not a regularity authority and as such we cannot handle specific appeals against parking tickets or other enforcement actions taken by our members but we can take actions where we believe they non-compliant to our Code of Practice. This can be reviewed on our website; https://www.britishparking.co.uk.

If an operator is found to be non-compliant of the Code, they would be subject to our Sanctions Scheme, where Operators who are non-compliant with the Code can expect to receive a number of penalty points depending on the severity of the offence. As with driving offences, once an operator’s ‘licence’ has reached twelve points in any given 12-month period, then they are likely to be faced with suspension or expulsion.

Although we sympathise with your predicament we have no power to get an operator to cancel or refund any parking enforcement charges. With this said, I regret to inform you that on the evidence you have supplied to us, we do not believe our member has acted in non-compliance of the Code of Practice in this instance.

The parking operator has responded to your appeal requesting that you forward a copy of a valid permit as you had parked in an area which required one. The operator therefore has not rejected your appeal and therefore would not at this stage supply a POPLA code. If you had responded to the operator with the information requested and or advised that you did not hold a valid permit the operator would have then made a final decision on your appeal and if then they rejected it POPLA details and verification code would have been issued.

If you have not as yet replied to the operator please do so then a final decision can be made on your appeal and then if rejected you will be supplied with POPLA details and verification code required.

I appreciate that this response might not be what you hoped for from us, but please rest assured that we take all complaints about members seriously and that we have looked closely at the points you raised. If you have any additional information pertaining to your case which you feel may relate to non-compliance of the Code, please forward this to us.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention and endeavouring to assist us in our efforts to drive up standards in the parking industry."

So it seems like the DVLA aren't really interested and the BPA are saying that the PPC do not have to give the POPLA code at this stage.

Does this seem correct or are they misunderstanding the situation?

Should I respond to the PPC now with a letter outlining that their agreement is with the building management and the parking space's is with the tenant. As there is nothing in the contract regarding parking permits, they need to speak with the landlord?

Thanks.

Coupon-mad

Should I respond to the PPC now with a letter outlining that their agreement is with the building management and the parking space's is with the tenant. As there is nothing in the contract regarding parking permits, they need to speak with the landlord?

Yep, and tell them this is your final word apart from the fact the charge they are chasing is clearly not a genuine pre-estimate of loss. Finish by demanding a POPLA code and tell them you have already opened a complaint about this with the BPA and DVLA which will be escalated if they keep replying with obfuscation and delay.

rivmix

Hi,

I have received a response to both my letters now with POPLA codes at the top of the page.

The options they are now giving me are
1)Pay
2)Appeal to POPLA
3)Do nothing and they will contact the debt collectors.

Obviously I'm hoping to pursue (2) here.

Just to re-clarify my situation-
I was parked in my friend parking bay, he lives in a private block of flats with gated parking. His tenancy agreement says nothing about requiring parking permits for his parking space and the landlord told him that their flats spot is the one I was parked in. UKPC do have signs up saying you need a parking permit but I didn't really pay much attention to them at the time and I don't believe you need one either in any case.

I have had a look through https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62180281#Comment_62180281 but couldn't find a case that matches my exact situation.
Can I use parts of https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/63857139#Comment_63857139 ?
The points i think do apply to my situation as follows:
1) No genuine pre-estimate of loss
2) No standing or authority to pursue charges nor form contracts with drivers
3) Flawed landowner contract and irregularities with any witness statement

What's the best way to proceed now?

Thanks in advance!