company changing working hours after tupe, should they change pay

tir21

i was tuped two years ago. company is now changing my hours to fall in line with their employees rota. if they change my hours to what their staff work, should they also increase my pay accordingly so i do the same hours and get same pay?

they have in fact said i can have the increase in pay if i leave my old contract and sign a new one. the trouble is their contract only has statutory sick pay whereas my current contract has 8 weeks full pay then 16 weeks half pay

is it worth giving up this sick pay for the 170 pounds a year extra i could get, or should i maintain that since they altered the hours of my contract they should alter the pay, without removing sick pay entitlement

thanks

anamenottaken

tir21 wrote: »

i was tuped two years ago. company is now changing my hours to fall in line with their employees rota. if they change my hours to what their staff work, should they also increase my pay accordingly so i do the same hours and get same pay?

they have in fact said i can have the increase in pay if i leave my old contract and sign a new one. the trouble is their contract only has statutory sick pay whereas my current contract has 8 weeks full pay then 16 weeks half pay

is it worth giving up this sick pay for the 170 pounds a year extra i could get, or should i maintain that since they altered the hours of my contract they should alter the pay, without removing sick pay entitlement

thanks

What's your sickness record like?
Is this job going to be one you want to stay in for the next 10 years or so or do you think you will want to leave in the next couple of years?
Is the £170 before deductions?

Are you salaried or paid an hourly rate?

tir21

anamenottaken wrote: »

What's your sickness record like?
Is this job going to be one you want to stay in for the next 10 years or so or do you think you will want to leave in the next couple of years?
Is the £170 before deductions?

Are you salaried or paid an hourly rate?

thanks

about 10 days off in seven years

i do love the job but the company have had a pay freeze since 2009 which could be ongoing for another 5 years at least

170 extra is before tax

paid on hourly rate

Naf

If you're paid by the hour, I'd keep the sick pay & marginally lower wage. After tax you'll see less than £10 a month; and you'll see even less than that if you're in receipt of benefits...
I don't believe they're obliged to up your wage to match; but you should still be entitled to the same treatment with regards pay increases etc.

Takeaway_Addict

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4767939

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4746528

A couple other threads from the OP for those that are interested.

OP, have in the last couple of months have u either taken legal advice or joined a union to get advice because this seems to be an on going issue?

marybelle01

OP, you can't play it like that. After two years anything pre-TUPE is up for grabs, but arguing that they should change conditions which suit you and not ones that don't is begging for them to start changing the whole thing. It isn't at all hard for an employer to change TUPE'd conditions, especially after this amount of time - they only need to find a business reason to do so, and that's childs play. Have you taken Takeaway Addicts advice?

tir21

Takeaway_Addict wrote: »

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4767939

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4746528

A couple other threads from the OP for those that are interested.

OP, have in the last couple of months have u either taken legal advice or joined a union to get advice because this seems to be an on going issue?

thanks. i think legal advice or joining a union would cost more than the pay rise

the thing that anoys me is that i have shown flexibilty and accepted an alteration in my contract with regards to the hours i work, so wouldnt it be fair to pay me what they pay others for doing those hours

tir21

marybelle01 wrote: »

OP, you can't play it like that. After two years anything pre-TUPE is up for grabs, but arguing that they should change conditions which suit you and not ones that don't is begging for them to start changing the whole thing. It isn't at all hard for an employer to change TUPE'd conditions, especially after this amount of time - they only need to find a business reason to do so, and that's childs play. Have you taken Takeaway Addicts advice?

thanks mary

but i think you are wrong to say there is a 2 year limit on tupe. apparently there is no time limit

they have changed conditions to suit them. im just asking for a bit of give and take

marybelle01

tir21 wrote: »

thanks mary

but i think you are wrong to say there is a 2 year limit on tupe. apparently there is no time limit

they have changed conditions to suit them. im just asking for a bit of give and take

You have misunderstood what I said. I did not say there was a two year limit. If the employer is clever and capable, there isn't a two minute limit, never mind two years! By the time you have reached two years it is simply easier for an employer to justify on business grounds. And they are willing to "give and take" - they are willing to give you a pay rise and take your sick pay. Which they are no doubt eyeing up taking anyway if it is so much better than other workers sick pay. "It causes undue jealousy and friction between workers having some on generous sick pay schemes and others not, and if we give everyone company sick pay we will have to start making redundancies as we cannot afford to pay it. So we are going to enforce the change of contract and anyone who rejects the terms will be deemed to have resigned" - there you are, I did it for them; a business justification, and it took me exactly three seconds to come up with it.

If you think your sick pay is safe, then you really are deluding yourself. It is safe as long as they let it be, and no longer.

tir21

se reply below - messed this one up

tir21

thanks mary

marybelle01 wrote: »

You have misunderstood what I said. I did not say there was a two year limit. If the employer is clever and capable, there isn't a two minute limit, never mind two years! By the time you have reached two years it is simply easier for an employer to justify on business grounds. And they are willing to "give and take" - they are willing to give you a pay rise and take your sick pay.

but thats taking more than they are giving because they would be taking my sick pay and my normal hours of work and just giving a 0.5% pay rise.

my argument is if they are changing the hours i work - shouldnt they also pay me what they pay everyone else for working those hours

i can understand the holiday pay being a sticking point if i had had more than 3 days off in the last two years

Which they are no doubt eyeing up taking anyway if it is so much better than other workers sick pay. "It causes undue jealousy and friction between workers having some on generous sick pay schemes and others not, and if we give everyone company sick pay we will have to start making redundancies as we cannot afford to pay it. So we are going to enforce the change of contract and anyone who rejects the terms will be deemed to have resigned" - there you are, I did it for them; a business justification, and it took me exactly three seconds to come up with it.

i can understand them being able to change hours of work on business grounds but think it would be harder to justify removing my sick pay entitlement citing the same reason

why should any of the existing employees even know about what my contract says regardig sick pay?

with regards to jealousy and friction i think that already exists due to some employees being tuped over who are on £2 an hour more than me and their existing employees

If you think your sick pay is safe, then you really are deluding yourself. It is safe as long as they let it be, and no longer.

then i cant see why they just dont remove it now. however if they did change that part of my contract i think they would risk an industrial tribunal finding against them