company changing working hours after tupe, should they change pay

Takeaway_Addict

tir21 wrote: »

thanks takeway



i agree but previous rulings are usually a good indicator

i mean there are no real business reasons to get rid of someone sick pay other than saving money - and all companies would like to get rid of tuped employees beneficial terms and conditions if the tupe regulations didnt prevent them from doing so



depends how many employees take them to a tribunal. £2000 must be an absolute forture to my company if they are opposing paying me the same when it means £170 extra a year

If it is then their business reason is valid isn't it, they need to reduce costs to keep going.......

Plus if I had the inclination I could pull cases showing the other result...

makeyourdaddyproud

Takeaway_Addict wrote: »

Just because one case went in the favour of the employee doesn't mean they all will and if there is a genuine business reason then there is a chance an employment tribunal will side with the employer.

Plus, it only cost the employer 2k in compensation....hardly a ground breaking amount that they will more than save in the long term.

I'm inclined to disagree.

Almost always is it an employer through a TUPE process that will try to reduce costs without a sound reason to the detriment of an employee.

I would partially agree with you if there were examples of an employees contract being changed to embrace the generosity of the transferring company if the employees' contracts were superior in that regard.

I hope the cited example reinforces the belief that signing new contracts is nearly always a bad idea.

tir21

thanks takeaway

Takeaway_Addict wrote: »

If it is then their business reason is valid isn't it, they need to reduce costs to keep going.......

it wouldnt be clear how they could show they would be saving costs by altering my contract when i havent ever had more than 3 days in a row off - or had more than one of two days off in any of the last 7.5 years

also the company employes about 50 doctors so any saving would be in the region of about 0.00001% of their annual budget

Plus if I had the inclination I could pull cases showing the other result...

go for it

theoretica

In effect the company is offering to buy your sick pay off you at £170 a year - if my work offered this to me I would definitely not accept! I don't feel that you have a strong case asking for the same pay, but better benefits, than the other workers.

Work out your daily wage - if you earn more than £22100 then any year you are ill more than two days you will get more money on your current contract. About 10 days off in 7 years is pretty close to breaking even - think of the extra half day a year as paying into a rather good insurance policy.

BobQ

tir21 wrote: »

thanks mary


but thats taking more than they are giving because they would be taking my sick pay and my normal hours of work and just giving a 0.5% pay rise.

Nobody said it had to be fair. They are changing your hours by a small amount. The rate you get is hourly fixed by your contract.

my argument is if they are changing the hours i work - shouldnt they also pay me what they pay everyone else for working those hours

Not necessarily since your hourly rate is part of your total reward package and that includes a better sick pay arrangement.

They are only asking you to sign a new contract not requiring it? If so its your choice.

i can understand the holiday pay being a sticking point if i had had more than 3 days off in the last two years

I assume you mean sick pay, but its part of your total package.

i can understand them being able to change hours of work on business grounds but think it would be harder to justify removing my sick pay entitlement citing the same reason

They are offering you a new contract has anyone said you will be sacked if you refuse?

why should any of the existing employees even know about what my contract says regardig sick pay?

with regards to jealousy and friction i think that already exists due to some employees being tuped over who are on £2 an hour more than me and their existing employees

then i cant see why they just dont remove it now. however if they did change that part of my contract i think they would risk an industrial tribunal finding against them

They may well do this in future but at present they are trying to negotiate with you to harmonise conditions. Your ET was a specific case where the employer made the mistake of making the change directly attributed to the TUPE. But there are other ways they can do this that are more justifiably a business need. If you want to avoid such pitfalls become an employment lawyer or join a union.

tir21

Dunroamin wrote: »

You said £170 pa was a 0.5% rise, so you presumably earn £34k.

must have made a slight miscalculation then

tir21

thanks theo

theoretica wrote: »

In effect the company is offering to buy your sick pay off you at £170 a year - if my work offered this to me I would definitely not accept!

to be fair they are not asking me to move to the new contract. they are just saying that i can if i want to

I don't feel that you have a strong case asking for the same pay, but better benefits, than the other workers.

i respect your opinion and would agree if i was asking to be on the same pay as them while keeping my old hours. however i have changed the hours i work so it fits in with their other staff so think it only fair they change my pay as well

the thing is they have said when there is a pay rise it will not be across the board. ut will be used to bring those on the lower rates up towards those on the higher rates. so when that happens there will still be an equality because i will be on the same pay as them but better sick pay

Work out your daily wage - if you earn more than £22100 then any year you are ill more than two days you will get more money on your current contract. About 10 days off in 7 years is pretty close to breaking even - think of the extra half day a year as paying into a rather good insurance policy.

i dont think the sick pay kicks un unless you have 3 days in a row off though

theoretica

tir21 wrote: »

i dont think the sick pay kicks un unless you have 3 days in a row off though

Statutory sick pay gives you nothing for the first 3 days of an illness. I assumed that your 8 weeks at full pay does pay from the first day.

tir21

thanks theo

theoretica wrote: »

Statutory sick pay gives you nothing for the first 3 days of an illness. I assumed that your 8 weeks at full pay does pay from the first day.

i will have to check it but i think its paid as statutory would be (ie after 3 days) but at an enhanced rate

yvonne13_2

OP if it's only £170 pa just over £10 a month why don't you just do an hours extra over time per month to make the money up?