Challenging Mortgage Survey?

mburkitt

Hi folks,

We have been selling our flat this year and when everything seemed to be going well and we had found somewhere to move to etc the buyers survey came back saying they had found 'evidence of Japanese knotweed'. I'm sure many of you know what that is and what that means for property sales.

However we live in a modern (12-year-old) apartment building in a developed part of North London. So I was sceptical at best that it could be affecting us. What made me more sceptical was that the surveyor made no note of where it was. Our management company have seen the report and it just says 'evidence of knotweed found' - nothing about where on the property. We naturally assumed the communal gardens but 1) he never went down there when he visited, and 2) it is currently being developed and so we asked the gardeners working on it to check and they found nothing.

The real problem is, other banks now know about the Santander report, as when we convinced our buyers that there must have been an error and they went to Natwest, NatWest's surveyors simply entered our postcode and saw the report from Santander and gave an instant no without even visiting. Every apartement in this building is therefore currently "un-valuable" by banks - and of course, we have now lost our buyers.

My question is, apart from any general advice anyone might have, is should we get a new survey done at our own cost (divided among the building residents of course)? Or should we try to challenge the report done by Santander (or more accurately, the surveyors hired by Santander?). All they have been prepared to do so far is give us a copy of the report. Is there maybe a professional code of conduct that surveyors must follow and would allow us to demand a more detailed explanation or even a second visit?

Any thoughts you might have would be appreciated.

M

hazyjo

Can't you ring the surveyor, or get your mortgage bod to ring? Ask where it was found/what previous evidence he's quoting.

No idea why you think it only being a modern 12 year old apartment makes a difference - it can turn up anywhere, at any time. Doesn't take 50 years to grow or anything

Really hope it's a mistake, although tbh doesn't sounds likely.

Jx

mburkitt

Oh I know it can spread, but my point was that people have known about Japanese knotweed for more than 12 years and I'd have thought (perhaps naively) that steps would have been taken then to ensure no damage could be done to the building.

Thanks for the tip, the mortgage advisor cannot speak to the surveyors as he needs to remain impartial between us and the bank. However will try to get our estate to challenge it instead (more than they have done already) and really find out what evidence was found, and importantly, where so we can find it and get it treated.

M

kingstreet

mburkitt wrote: »

other banks now know about the Santander report, as when we convinced our buyers that there must have been an error and they went to Natwest, NatWest's surveyors simply entered our postcode and saw the report from Santander and gave an instant no without even visiting

What makes you think this?

A report prepared for one lender would not be available to another unless they instructed the same firm. There is no database lenders can look at to see previous valuations by other lenders/surveyors.

Did Santander use Esurv, Countrywide, Connells etc? These are the main surveyors for corporate work, such as mortgage report & valuations for lenders and may also be used by NatWest.

mburkitt

That is what our mortgage advisor told us when the buyers failed to get the mortgage approved. He said they went to get a second opinion from Natwest, but when Natwest (or their surveyors possibly) looked up our address they saw that Santander had done a report and immediately rejected the property without. I have no reason to doubt the MA's version of events.

I am not sure which surveyors Santander used, but I guess in theory it could be the same as Natwest. However our MA's manager also heard about our situation and he told us that on another property he had to go to many different banks to get one who would do a new survey after the first survey was not favourable, so it seems there is some sharing of information between the banks (or perhaps surveyors) in this regard.

wannahouse

hazyjo wrote: »

Really hope it's a mistake, although tbh doesn't sounds likely.

Jx

"doesn't sound likely?"

ofcourse its likely theres a mistake!!!

we had the exact same thing...stupid valuer come along and try to write off the property we're buying by claiming evidence of japanese knotweed present within 7 mtrs of the property" as this makes it unmortgageable!

THERE WAS NOTHING -NOTHING, that even remotely looked like japanese knotweed on the whole 3 acres of the property, and like this fellow referenced, "could not seem to remember exactly where he saw it"! .

if you are an expert and you had seen something - you would remember where you saw it!

we scoured to property also, before paying an invasive and noxious weeds ,insured expert to come out and do a costly vegetation survey, and NOT ONLY WAS THERE NO EVIDENCE ,ANYWHERE OF JAPANESE KNOTWEED, there wasn't even any other kind of invasive or noxious weeds on the property either..so the valuer was forced to retract his comments as he was proven wrong.
we don't know what his motivation was for alleging that, but something was fishy!
the property is rather overgrown, and if there had been knotweed there it would have been rampant after being left unattended for 5 years...these guys can and do get it wrong!


heck, there wasn't even a plant that resembled it that could have been an honest mistake, he just made it up out of thin air, so i would recommend you contact one of the insured, japanese knotweed eradication experts and ask them about producing a survey for you.
if we'd just bowed down to this bozzo's "expertise" we wouldn't be on the cusp of buying our dream home right now!

controljapaneseknotweed

I believe that Valuers are obliged to identify Japanese knotweed according to the "Red Book" issued by the RICS. The idea is to ensure that a buyer/lender does not end up with a property which has invasive weed issues.

The problem is that Valuers can't always make a positive identification and as such they can and do get it wrong. If a Valuer fails to identify knotweed they can be taken to task since they have an obligation as per the "Red Book". As a result some valuers are spooked and will make statements along the lines of "We believe Japanese knotweed is present in the locality" while some just get it wrong!

Clearly this is not helpful to anyone!

My recommendation if you find yourself in this position would be to contact a Property Care Association (PCA) Invasive Weed Specialist. The PCA Invasive Weed Division was set up in conjunction with the RICS when they published an information paper on Japanese knotweed and Residential Property (see RICS web site for a copy but be aware it is not cheap!).

The PCA is the only independent trade body who represent Invasive Weed Specialists. Their members have been independently inspected and are government Trustmark approved. Members are generally known to lenders and the RICS.

Through using a PCA Knotweed specialist you can independently verify what a valuer has claimed (Make sure the specialist has Professional Indemnity Insurance). If the valuer is wrong and no knotweed is evident you should get the Knotweed Specialist to write a letter stating that they have inspected the property and cannot find any Japanese knotweed or evidence that it has been growing at the property. The letter should be sent to the Mortgage lender. This would be quite in-expensive and should get your re-mortgage or property sale back on track.

If knotweed is present the PBA Knotweed Specialist will be able to provide a report and program of treatment the would be insurance company guaranteed for 5 or 10 years. They would also provide an insurance policy against structural damage caused by knotweed to the property.

Obviously there is a cost involved but invasive weeds such as Japanese knotweed can be a menace devaluing property and stopping sales and remortgaging. Therefore to successfully put knotweed blighted property back into the market place it is essential that accredited specialists are used since they are recognised by the lenders, are established businesses and offer a number of third party product developed to protect their clients.

Road_Hog

mburkitt wrote: »

I am not sure which surveyors Santander used,QUOTE]

I would ask who they are and I bet it is E.Surv. I had a buyer who arranged his mortgage through Santander and that is who they used.

I had to end up paying for a structual engineer's report to dispute much of what they reported.

They have in the past had bad publicity for missing things and now they seem to have swung the other way.

They were so bad and took so long, that I've instructed the new EA, that I will not sell to anyone using them as surveyors.

PS If you buy/sell a property through Yourmove, you are very likely to end up with E.Surv if you use their services, because they're part of the same company, LSL Group.

eddddy

Road_Hog wrote: »

mburkitt wrote: »

I would ask who they are and I bet it is E.Surv.
....

They were so bad and took so long, that I've instructed the new EA, that I will not sell to anyone using them as surveyors.

....

Pragmatically, I think Road_Hog's suggestion might be the best short term solution. (Although prospective purchasers may be spooked when told they can't use a particular valuation firm.)

If the OP's property really has been "blacklisted" by a valuation firm, the firm wont enter into discussions with the OP, as the OP is not their client.

So even if the OP gets specialist report, it's hard to see how this would get the OP's property off the valuer's blacklist.

(Perhaps sending the valuation firm a solicitor's letter threatening action for defamation, along with the specialist report might make them reconsider. Who knows?)

Road_Hog

eddddy wrote: »

(Although prospective purchasers may be spooked when told they can't use a particular valuation firm.

Without wishing to hijack the Op's thread, I would just say that eventually Santander got the green light to proceed with the valuation/lending with no retentions.

However, it was a long drawn out process. E.Surv too a month to do the valuation, 8 days to write up the report and then it sat in the out-tray for a few days.

Then they wanted a structural engineer's report and took 3 weeks to respond to it, saying it was okay but then needed a sentence adding to it. That was done and it took them another 3 weeks to respond, but instead of going okay (as they had said), they wanted a builders quote for the work. It took them another 2 weeks to respond to this.

That's around 14 weeks to get the mortgage approved. I managed to get a structural engineer out in 2 days and the report emiled to me in a PDF the following day. I can't imagine how stressful that is for someone hoping to move into a new home, that is possibly in a chain, with the risk of collapse.

eddddy

Road_Hog wrote: »

Without wishing to hijack the Op's thread, I would just say that eventually Santander got the green light to proceed with the valuation/lending with no retentions.

Hi Road_Hog

If I'm understanding correctly, your situation is very different from the OP's. I'm guessing it's as follows:

You had a buyer that wanted to proceed, so the buyer pushed Santander (and Esurv).

The OP's buyer has walked away. So there is nobody to push the lender and valuer. (The lender and valuer won't discuss the matter with the OP.)