how to find historic dss rules and get copies of dss info?

kuepper

Icequeen99 wrote: »

Yes, but there is an exception in what he quotes 'However, if the person was entitled to Sickness Benefit prior to 13 April 1995 then the IB became taxable when that person started to receive the short-term higher rate of IB.'IQ

What is 'Sickness Benefit', it doesn't seem defined anywhere. I suppose it's possible I was on this and not Invalidity Benefit but the latter rings a bell.

Icequeen99 wrote: »

I think you are on the wrong track re the 28 weeks. If you went from invalidity benefit to short term IB (which you must have done otherwise you would have gone to long term and would be covered by the tax exemption) then at the time DWP would have taken account of the earlier periods when calculating the 28 weeks. That wouldn't be a decision for HMRC now.

The tax position depends on the benefit position - HMRC have to base it on the benefit as was. If it is the case that at the time DWP decided you had not done 28 weeks and therefore started IB on a short term rate then the exemption doesn't apply. IQ

I'm not blaming HMRC for they would only act on what the DSS/DWP told them, but what if the DSS/DWP were wrong? I actually think you are wrong re the 28 weeks, it now seems to me this period is probably irrelevant to my circumstances, nowhere does it say as far as I can see what you say it says unless I am misunderstanding something. The only reference to 28 weeks is in relation to the content of NYM's post is re the 1st 28 weeks of short term Incapacity benefit being not taxable.

kuepper

NYM wrote: »

Sorry.... I might have given an incorrect link.

Try this one.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/eim76180.htm

Thanks, that also seems to confirm that if I was getting Invalidity Benefit prior to 13/4/95 I shouldn't have been paying tax on Incapacity Benefit subsequently

Where anywhere does it say what DWP told me on the phone - that I had to be sick for 28 weeks continuous prior to 13/4/95/?

I've just noticed these are HMRC docs not DWP, is there a source for DWP docs on this?

kuepper

Icequeen99 wrote: »

However, my understanding is that it only applied to those who had been on invalidity benefit for at least 28 weeks. If you had been on it less (like you had) then you were transitioned to short term IB and then to long term taxable IB. In other words, you didn't transition to long term IB straight away, because you had not done a full 28 weeks. It was those transitioning to long term who got the protection.
IQ

Sorry I should have asked where you got your understanding from, as you don't quote a source.

Icequeen99

Whether you agree or not with me, i can't see that any of this is relevant now. You have agreed that it isn't down to HMRC, but down to DWP's benefit decision at the time. If you believe the benefit decision made when you were transferred to IB was wrong then you would be out of time to challenge it now anyway.


IQ

epitome

Haven't you left it a bit late, you had 1 month to appeal the decision in 1995

But if you want to see the historic rules just look at the relevant legislation. It can all be found on legislation.gov.uk

Ask DWP for clarification as to what legislation covered the transition from X benefit onto short term or long term IB.

Icequeen99

To answer your question re sickness benefit - sickness benefit was a different benefit to invalidity benefit. Both were replaced by incapacity benefit.

I think you need to go back to DWP and confirm what exactly you were receiving up to 13 April 1995 and then what rate of Incapacity benefit you started with from 13 April 1995.

The legislation is Section 663 ITEPA 2003, but that doesn't help unless you know the answers to the two questions above.

You really need to establish whether you are disagreeing with DWP's benefit decision (in which case there is nothing you can do about it now) or whether you are saying DWP were wrong about the tax status alone (in which case I still think you are out of time).

Edited to add: here are the regulations that governed the transition. If you were on invalidity benefit it seems you should have been given long term IB status. If you were on sickness benefit you went to short term IB. http://legislation.data.gov.uk/uksi/1995/310/made/data.htm?wrap=true

IQ

NYM

STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS - 1995 No. 310 SOCIAL SECURITY

The Social Security (Incapacity Benefit)(Transitional) Regulations 1995

http://legislation.data.gov.uk/uksi/1995/310/made/data.htm?wrap=true

kuepper

Icequeen. Yes I agree I need to confirm if I was on Sickness or Invalidity Benefit and what type of Incapacity benefit I was put on, it's odd that DWP haven't referred to that issue. However, having looked at the acronyms used by DWP in their letter to me, it seems that I was on IVB - which I'm guessing is more likely to be Invalidity Benefit than Sickness Benefit - and put on IBLT which I'm guessing is Incapacity Benefit Long Term.

I didn't know a decision had been made in 1995 so I couldn't have appealed it, the only reason it's become an issue for me now is that when I was recently questioning an issue re my state pension and tax the Tax Advice line of AgeUK told me the Incapacity Benefit i received from 13/4/95 shouldn't have been taxable ie it shouldn't have been deducted from my single person tax allowance in calculating my tax code

PS I still can't find any reference in the legislation or HRMC docs about having to have been sick for 28 weeks prior to 13/4/95, can you quote where thats from please?

Icequeen99

kuepper wrote: »

Icequeen. Yes I agree I need to confirm if I was on Sickness or Invalidity Benefit and what type of Incapacity benefit I was put on, it's odd that DWP haven't referred to that issue. However, having looked at the acronyms used by DWP in their letter to me, it seems that I was on IVB - which I'm guessing is more likely to be Invalidity Benefit than Sickness Benefit - and put on IBLT which I'm guessing is Incapacity Benefit Long Term.

I didn't know a decision had been made in 1995 so I couldn't have appealed it, the only reason it's become an issue for me now is that when I was recently questioning an issue re my state pension and tax the Tax Advice line of AgeUK told me the Incapacity Benefit i received from 13/4/95 shouldn't have been taxable ie it shouldn't have been deducted from my single person tax allowance in calculating my tax code

PS I still can't find any reference in the legislation or HRMC docs about having to have been sick for 28 weeks prior to 13/4/95, can you quote where thats from please?

Well the 28 weeks is irrelevant now as you have confirmed two important pieces of information - you were in IVB (which is invalidity benefit) and you were transferred to IBLT (long term incapacity benefit).

The 28 weeks, as far as I was concerned was relevant, only if you had been on sickness benefit or transferred to short term IB.

Section 663 ITEPA 2003 - which governs the tax position - doesn't have any reference to 28 weeks.

But like i said, even if they have taxed it wrong, what you can do about it this far down the line is a problem.

Can you contact one of the specific tax charities - Tax Help for Older People, TaxAid or LITRG to get some advice on their view and also the potential remedy?

IQ

NYM

Forgive me for asking what might be a very stupid question....


Was 'Sickness Benefit' different to SSP ?
I know one is payable by the Employer (SSP) but was 'Sickness Benefit' payable by the State ?