CMS parking fine, in a mess

Stroma

Well you could ask them to hand back it back to the parking company denying that the debt is owed. And report them to the oft they continue hassling you. They are minded to take their licence away in any case. It's up to you really

Coupon-mad

Naz2k5 wrote: »

yep sounds good, and lastly would you bother telling roxburgh that there is no debt, and to stop contacting me, as i have now declined there is a debt it could constitute as harrassment?

Yep, especially as they are bothering you by phone. Too much hassle for you - so tell them to get lost!



Pedant mode = there is only one r in harassment (different from embarrassment, which has two)...pedant mode now off!

Naz2k5

So the plot thickens....

It turns out the car park is actually owned by the council, however they are using CMS to patrol it and issue tickets!?!?

where does this leave me? I have talked to the manage but he seems unhelpful, any laws or help i can find on this matter?

Many thanks,

Naz

Stroma

It leaves you in the same position as before, the council are a landowner the same as any other landowner. So still make complaints there

Naz2k5

but i dont understand why i didnt get a council ticket and got this private ticket! but am in the process of making complaints, not getting very far.

Anything you would suggest to include in the letter?

Stroma

Because there is no parking order on the land, there are lots of places with such arrangements. My local council owns the freehold of a large retail park near me

Coupon-mad

Naz2k5 wrote: »

but i dont understand why i didnt get a council ticket and got this private ticket! but am in the process of making complaints, not getting very far.

Anything you would suggest to include in the letter?

I suspect the Council didn't contract the PPC at all. I reckon there will be a middleman development firm who lease the car park, who then contract the PPC.

CMS are not known to have any Council contracts and if this was Council enforcement it would be a Penalty Charge (completely different).

Have you NEVER implied who the driver was, at all? And have you kept all the letters? If so then that is good, because as the registered keeper, there may be enough flaws in their first Notices to get this cancelled if you report them to the BPA and DVLA.

Please show us a scan or photo of both sides of the original ticket and the first letter. All small print (just cover the PCN number, name/address and car reg & location). As you can't yet post full links, host your photos/scans on tinypic and reply here with a broken link (= remove the http://) and we can then convert it back to a clicky link. I suspect we will find flaws if you've kept the PCN and Notice to Keeper.

Naz2k5

this is the email form the council worker, i guess ill blank his name and his number to be nice

This car park is for contract parking ie private individuals or companies pay a monthly fee for spaces. They have allocated spaces and can use them 24 hours. We employ CMS Ltd to patrol this type of car park so that the authorised users are not inconvenienced.

CMS have had signs up for many years warning of fines for unauthorised users as well as the sign you mention. I consider there is adequate warning that only authorised users are permitted to use the car park and the fines imposed. Consequently I cannot see any grounds for supporting your request to revoke the fine.

Regards

Jon
Property Division
Leicester City Council
Direct line- 0116



and ill be uploading the pictures soon as, unfortunately i threw away the first ticket, as my plan was to deny it, but have the first letter, and successive solictor and debt collector letters.

Naz2k5

Hi,

tinypic.com/r/207x0ex/5

tinypic.com/r/2dqv6e8/5

this is the picture of the first letter i recieved, unfortunately i have not got the first ticket. However there has been no contact with CMS, so there is no implication of who the driver was.

Coupon-mad

CMS have had signs up for many years warning of fines for unauthorised users as well as the sign you mention. I consider there is adequate warning that only authorised users are permitted to use the car park and the fines imposed. Consequently I cannot see any grounds for supporting your request to revoke the fine.

Oh so it's a PPC acting for the Property Division, but still issuing fake PCNs of course. The deluded Council minion has called the invoice a 'fine' 3 times!

Doesn't matter a jot about the windscreen ticket because you are the registered keeper who won't have seen that! And you will be complaining to the BPA about this PPC trying to pursue you as keeper when their signage and NTK is wholly non-compliant.

Tell the BPA that you have been to inspect the car park when you got the Notice to Keeper and found that CPM's notice board was tiny, and hidden behind a tree. Attach a photo if possible, showing it obscured.

And yep, look at all the flaws with POFA 2012 Schedule 4 paragraph 8 (NTKs):

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

8(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(a) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.
(2)The notice must—
(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;
(c)state that a notice to driver relating to the specified period of parking has been given and repeat the information in that notice as required by paragraph... 7(2)(f) specify the time when the notice is given and the date.
(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—
(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or
(ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;
(f)warn the keeper that if, at the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to keeper is given—
(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges (as specified under paragraph (c) or (d)) has not been paid in full, and
(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,
the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;
(h)identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment or notification to the creditor may be made...



You need to take down page one as you left your name and address on it. But you can use the pics to attach to the BPA complaint:

[EMAIL="steve.c@britishparking.co.uk"]steve.c@britishparking.co.uk[/EMAIL]

Remember you are NOT talking about the ticket or the parking incident (that was for the driver not you as keeper). You are complaining about the signage that you have been to see recently (pic attached) and about the flaws in the NTK. Because those multiple wording omissions in bold mean that this PPC are harassing the wrong party since they have utterly failed to issue a vaguely POFA-compliant NTK.