Lidl car park fine - to pay or not to pay?

Umkomaas

Well done trujimana, especially as you've done this without any forum hand-holding. :T

I suspect you've bamboozled the PPC with the script you've sent them and the references you've made to PoFA etc.

As in 'Doh, what's all this stuff about? Send them a 'PCN cancelled' letter cos my head's starting to hurt!' :cool:

pogofish

trujimana wrote: »

Hi!

I'm new to the forum so not sure which is the best place to post this but I wanted to share this information since it may be useful to others (this forum and other sites were very useful sources when preparing my reply, so I wanted to give something back).

After receiving a NTK from Athena ANPR Ltd. I sent them the email below and they cancelled the parking charge :j:

Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing to you with reference to Notice to Keeper number (insert reference number on Notice to Keeper) regarding an alleged parking incident on (insert date) at (insert name of store and full address).
In order to take an informed decision on how to deal with the above-mentioned document I would like to request further information on this alleged incident and the alleged parking charges of £(insert amount).
First of all, your Notice to Keeper mentions a company called Athena ANPR Ltd. but fails to identify the actual creditor making this parking charge demand, as required under Schedule 4 paragraphs 8(2)(h) and 9(2)(h) of the PoFA 2012. Therefore I would like you to send me this information, since I need to know exactly who is making the claim and in what capacity.
I would also like to receive all photographic evidence that you hold on this alleged incident since the image you have included in your document of (insert date) as alleged evidence of the vehicle exiting the car park is a blurry picture of an unidentifiable vehicle in an unidentifiable location. I do not expect to pay for this information as it would be disclosable in any future court proceedings.
I would be very grateful if you could send me evidence that besides your management duties within the car park, you also enjoy the rights of possession or occupation needed to be able to enter into an individual contract with drivers and to issue parking charge notices. I therefore require you to send me a copy of the contract that gives you authority to demand these payments together with the instructions that you have received from (insert store name) regarding the time limits and sanctions they wish to impose on their customers.
Further to the above, please explain fully on which of the following grounds your claim is based: trespass, breach of contract or contractually-agreed sum. Please note that if you are claiming that trespass was committed, I would like to receive a full breakdown of the actual loss suffered by your business or the landowner which could give rise to your claim for damages. If on the other hand you are claiming there was a breach of contract or a contractually-agreed sum, I would like to receive a copy of the contract which the driver allegedly entered into.

Please note that I do not wish to receive a standard template answer which fails to address the specific issues that I have raised with you.

I look forward to receiving your acknowledgement within 14 days and a comprehensive reply within 35 days (in accordance with the BPA AOS Code of Practice B.22.8). Only then will I be able to make an informed decision as to how I shall respond to your Notice to Keeper.

Yours sincerely,

Five days later I received an email saying the following:

Dear Sir/Madam,
Thank you for your email in regards to the above parking charge.
Please be advised your charge has been cancelled and confirmation is attached
Please ignore any further letters that may be received as nothing remains outstanding.
Regards
Athena ANPR Ltd

Good luck to all of you going through the unpleasant experience of dealing with this company. Hopefully we'll manage to put these parking cowboys out of business soon! :T

Uh....?

You indicated that you had read and understood the basics of forum navigation during your signup. You also clearly agreed not to bump or hijack other posters threads!

And the appropriate place to post this is in the Cancelled Tickets sticky - which is right at the top of the forum. Editing/shifting your post to it mught be a good idea.

trujimana

pogofish wrote: »

Uh....?

You indicated that you had read and understood the basics of forum navigation during your signup. You also clearly agreed not to bump or hijack other posters threads!

And the appropriate place to post this is in the Cancelled Tickets sticky - which is right at the top of the forum. Editing/shifting your post to it mught be a good idea.

Apologies then! I thought this was a relevant thread since my post refers to Lidl and Athena... Have posted this information on the cancelled tickets sticky as you suggest, although not sure that's the best place. After a quick read, I get the impression most of the posts there refer to cancellations due to store manager interventions.

In any case, my sole intention was to help other people, not to become a forum expert (would be wonderful but I just don't have the time) or to upset the masters of the forum universe.

pogofish

trujimana wrote: »

Apologies then! I thought this was a relevant thread since my post refers to Lidl and Athena... Have posted this information on the cancelled tickets sticky as you suggest, although not sure that's the best place. After a quick read, I get the impression most of the posts there refer to cancellations due to store manager interventions.

In any case, my sole intention was to help other people, not to become a forum expert (would be wonderful but I just don't have the time) or to upset the masters of the forum universe.

You don't help anyone by hijacking a thread, no matter how "relevant" you think your info is - Most times it either confuses or gets lost, rapidly.

Look at the number of views for the stickies - many times that of an average thread, so what gets posted there will go-on helping people long after this thread has dropped down the boards.

And in the post-POFA world, any method that results in a cancellation is a good one!

And its not a matter of being any kind of expert or "master" - its just the most basic guidelines for conduct.

Guys_Dad

pogofish wrote: »

You don't help anyone by hijacking a thread, no matter how "relevant" you think your info is - Most times it either confuses or gets lost, rapidly.

Look at the number of views for the stickies - many times that of an average thread, so what gets posted there will go-on helping people long after this thread has dropped down the boards.

And in the post-POFA world, any method that results in a cancellation is a good one!

And its not a matter of being any kind of expert or "master" - its just the most basic guidelines for conduct.

You have got the hijack point completely wrong.

Trujimana has not asked for advice or help. On the contrary, what the post said was, in fact, this is what I did and it got me a cancellation. By implication, if OP uses same approach, they may get a similar result.

In fact, c-m in the previous post said it was time to get a basic challenge in and this was an example of a basic challenge that got a cancellation that OP might wish to adapt.

So, what is more helpful - advice saying "this is what I advise and it SHOULD work" or "this is what I wrote and it DID work for me"?

The post offered help and support and was helpful and didn't deserve to be accused of a hijack which it clearly was not.

sk394

Hi all,

This is the response I received to my appeal where i told them the reason i went over the time limit was due to lack of parking spaces.

Thank you for your correspondence in relation to the outstanding parking charge incurred on 22/10/13 at 17:24.

We are pleased to inform you that under the circumstances, we have decided to accept a payment of £25.00 in full and the final settlement of the outstanding charge as a gesture of goodwill.


Any advice on what to do now? this gesture of goodwill just seems dodgy

Stroma

Yes write back with a rejection , and please to forward a popla verification code to appeal there, say that you know it will be upheld on a genuine pre estimate of loss, they not having adequate signs, and not holding a contract to issue these invoices.

Rub it in bit that you are quite happy to save £25 by rejecting their offer, but are quite willing to actually cost them £27+vat by going to popla and getting a win.

4consumerrights

Stroma wrote: »

Yes write back with a rejection , and please to forward a popla verification code to appeal there, say that you know it will be upheld on a genuine pre estimate of loss, they not having adequate signs, and not holding a contract to issue these invoices.

Rub it in bit that you are quite happy to save £25 by rejecting their offer, but are quite willing to actually cost them £27+vat by going to popla and getting a win.

Another suggestion to tweak slightly the above:

Thank them for their offer for a full and final settlement offer of £25 for the alleged breach. However as all companies have a legal liability to mitigate any losses incurred when pursuing any alleged outstanding costs, and that as POPLA would cost them more ( £27+VAT) , I suggest you cancel the charge forthwith as I do not accept any liability for the charge.

I therefore decline your invitation for the full and final settlement offer and should you decide not to cancel this charge, then please forward a POPLA code........(as Stromas wording above para one).

Coupon-mad

sk394 wrote: »

Hi all,

This is the response I received to my appeal where i told them the reason i went over the time limit was due to lack of parking spaces.

Thank you for your correspondence in relation to the outstanding parking charge incurred on 22/10/13 at 17:24.

We are pleased to inform you that under the circumstances, we have decided to accept a payment of £25.00 in full and the final settlement of the outstanding charge as a gesture of goodwill.


Any advice on what to do now? this gesture of goodwill just seems dodgy

Of course it's dodgy - and strengthens your case! We had one like this the other day and this was my suggested reply (details and amounts would need tweaking):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/63714390#Comment_63714390

It would be especially funny to send that (suitably amended but otherwise word for word including the dodgy NTKs comment) because that case was Athena as well and was only the other day!



By the way just to add, don't rely solely on GPEOL in Athena cases because on a thread I saw their signage and they 'attempt' to make it a contractual charge (not necessarily loss in fact). But it doesn't detract from the above reply because they can be caught out on landowner contract, ANPR not being synchronised, unfair contract terms, penalty clause, business rates, and flaws with the NTK to name but a few.

sk394

This is the latest email i have received

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email in regards to the above parking charge.

Please be advised we are only able to issue a POPLA code when an appeal has been rejected.

In this instance your appeal was not rejected therefore we are unable to issue you with a POPLA code.

Your charge has been reduced to £25.00, this remains outstanding.

If you can provide us with any mitigating evidence to support your appeal, we will of course look into this for you.

Please do feel free to contact us with any other questions/queries you may have.

Regards

Athena ANPR Ltd

I already sent them my receipt of the time I had left Lidl and I was there at a very busy time and did not find parking space for 15 minutes.

I'm grateful for all the help i can get! I just don't want these people to win!