Staff Parking at Hospital - forgot to display permit. TPS Ticket. Ignore or appeal?

zoonyx

Umkomaas wrote: »

If the PPC is pursuing this under PoFA (ie pursuing the Registered Keeper) then the formal second stage appeal is to POPLA, not the hospital.

Appealing to the hospital in isolation will eat up the 28 days available, from the date of the PPC's rejection (which must include a POPLA code), for the motorist to appeal to POPLA, thereby 'timing out' with no second chance.

I think it remiss of the hospital not to include the POPLA position in the procedures (no doubt 'advised' by the PPC?).

Definitely appeal to POPLA, there's a far greater certainty about that route. But there's absolutely no reason why the 2 appeal routes cannot be used simultaneously. Now wouldn't that be an interesting scenario - turned down by the hospital appeals board, appeal upheld by POPLA.

Please encourage her to do both in parallel.

I will, though as stated before, she kinda wants to appeal to the trust, but also doesn't want to get involved in breaching trust policy (as Daisy mentioned).

The only thing troubling me at the moment, is when the 28 days to appeal to TPS starts from - is it from the date the charge notice was put on the car, or from the date the official, postal Notice to Keeper arrives?

Is it ANY USE WHATSOEVER, to take the template a few posts up, and email the appeal (they provide an appeals email, but not sure if its just an autoreply).

Sorry to keep going over the same ground - I've used the forum search and google, but you always end up looking for ways other people's issues are slightly different, and worrying you're not covering all bases, or the appeals process is going to time out!

Edit: Sorry just read monk's post again in post 2. Do you HAVE to wait for the NtK? Or can you appeal before and get a POPLA code based on the PCN stuck to window? Just trying to lower the stress levels by starting the process soon.

For reference and to help others, I sent a blank email to the appeals email address, and got the following back:

Thank you for your email, this is an automatically generated response your appeal has not yet been read.
In order for us to respond to your appeal, it is essential that you provide us with your Parking Charge Notice (PCN) number along with any supporting evidence. Upon receiving this information, we will halt any further action until we respond to your appeal. If your appeal does not contain this information, please resend an email ensuring your PCN number and evidence is included. We aim to respond within 14 working days after your appeal has been received. If we reject your appeal, we will supply you with the contact details for Parking On Private Land Appeals (POPLA) - the independent appeals service.
If you were not the driver at the time of the Parking Charge Notice issue date, please provide us with the driver's full name and address so that we may transfer liability.
Payment of the Parking Charge Notice can be made by credit or debit card by logging on towebsite or by calling our payment line on 0845 257 3540 selecting option '1'

This sounds like TPS may provide a POPLA code based on an email submission. I'm a assuming this is not recommended, but thought I'd post it for info.

nigelbb

Umkomaas wrote: »

If the PPC is pursuing this under PoFA (ie pursuing the Registered Keeper) then the formal second stage appeal is to POPLA, not the hospital.

Appealing to the hospital in isolation will eat up the 28 days available, from the date of the PPC's rejection (which must include a POPLA code), for the motorist to appeal to POPLA, thereby 'timing out' with no second chance.

I think it remiss of the hospital not to include the POPLA position in the procedures (no doubt 'advised' by the PPC?).

Definitely appeal to POPLA, there's a far greater certainty about that route. But there's absolutely no reason why the 2 appeal routes cannot be used simultaneously. Now wouldn't that be an interesting scenario - turned down by the hospital appeals board, appeal upheld by POPLA.

Please encourage her to do both in parallel.

I disagree. The appeal process has nothing to do with POFA (other than if there is one the NTD & NTK must describe the process). The appeal process of the PPC can be as longwinded as they like (one of the PPCs insists on a three appeals to them before allowing access to POPLA.

At present no option of appealing to POPLA has been given so there is no possibility of appealing to POPLA & the hospital in parallel. The POPLA code must be provided if the final TPS/Hospital appeal is rejected.

This two stage appeal with the second appeal being to the actual landowner is not unique. Wing parking have a contract with Haringey Council with a similar appeals scheme. The landowner probably feels they are demonstrating fairness to their employees/tenants by being involved in the process.

Bottom line is that the OP must exhaust the PPC's appeals process whatever it is before being able to appeal to POPLA.

Umkomaas

No. You need to await the NtK, this gives better protection to the Registered Keeper under PoFA than the driver would get once he/she identifies him/herself.

The appeal to the PPC does not have to be overly detailed, it's unlikely to be upheld, so see this as a necessary step in getting a POPLA code, where, with advice from here nearer the time, this can be seen this off via POPLA.

The deadline of 28 days to appeal to the PPC is one they set themselves, so it could be a bit of a (limited) moving feast as to which is the starting date, so best to do it well within the timescale from the earliest date to avoid any hassle you'd likely get if you push it up to the wire.

This is in sharp contrast to the POPLA deadline which is set by POPLA. This is what they say on their website,

If you want to appeal, you must do so with (sic) 28 days of date of the operator’s notice of rejection.

and they strictly enforce that deadline, don't meet it and you miss out - period. No second chance.

Get back when you get the NtK.

Umkomaas

nigelbb wrote: »

I disagree. The appeal process has nothing to do with POFA (other than if there is one the NTD & NTK must describe the process). The appeal process of the PPC can be as longwinded as they like (one of the PPCs insists on a three appeals to them before allowing access to POPLA.

At present no option of appealing to POPLA has been given so there is no possibility of appealing to POPLA & the hospital in parallel. The POPLA code must be provided if the final TPS/Hospital appeal is rejected.

This two stage appeal with the second appeal being to the actual landowner is not unique. Wing parking have a contract with Haringey Council with a similar appeals scheme. The landowner probably feels they are demonstrating fairness to their employees/tenants by being involved in the process.

Bottom line is that the OP must exhaust the PPC's appeals process whatever it is before being able to appeal to POPLA.

I think we're both doing a bit of speculation here in an attempt to help the OP. Let's await the NtK and we can all be a bit clearer.

Do you think that a relatively small fry PPC is going to have differentiated paperwork?

zoonyx

Sorry guys, I think my pushing is probably causing this. I promise - back in my box until the NtK arrives!

nigelbb

Umkomaas wrote: »

This is in sharp contrast to the POPLA deadline which is set by POPLA. This is what they say on their website,



and they strictly enforce that deadline, don't meet it and you miss out - period. No second chance.

Not strictly true. It's not the rejection of the appeal per se. The 28 day appeal to POPLA clock starts counting when the PPC issue the verification code for a POPLA appeal (which the PPC can do whenever they like & often back date them or are tardy in sending them out). PPCs have been known to send out a valid POPLA code months after they have rejected an appeal but only after constant nagging from the motorist.

Umkomaas

nigelbb wrote: »

Not strictly true. It's not the rejection of the appeal per se. The 28 day appeal to POPLA clock starts counting when the PPC issue the verification code for a POPLA appeal (which the PPC can do whenever they like & often back date them or are tardy in sending them out). PPCs have been known to send out a valid POPLA code months after they have rejected an appeal but only after constant nagging from the motorist.

The quote was lifted directly from the POPLA website, I guess they are assuming that PPCs are following the correct procedure and issuing a POPLA code with the rejection.

Coupon-mad

This sounds like TPS may provide a POPLA code based on an email submission. I'm assuming this is not recommended, but thought I'd post it for info.

Perfectly OK to appeal by email, but CERTAINLY BEST to wait for that Notice to Keeper - for various reasons that will make your POPLA grounds stronger. All will be revealed when you get the NTK as I expect we will be able to tear it apart for non-compliance. As I say to others 'wait for a NTK - you WANT one of those'!

zoonyx

Update: Notice to Keeper received (doesn't actually call itself that, but mentions details via DVLA etc, so I assume its genuine).

Think we will go via email first off, include the permit and use similar wording to the above (I heard some places will ignore templated letters?).

Will update further when I hear back.

Coupon-mad

OK, make sure you write as the keeper talking about 'the driver's permit' in the third person so the driver stays anonymous. Not 'I parked, here's my permit'.