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Gold Fades From Investment Picture
Comments
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I haven't studied it in any great depth, until all banks can be properly and independently audited no one knows how much gold there is or isn't. In fact no one knows what's really happening until it all blows up as in 2008.
The spot price isn't determined by the physical metal market, it's determined by traders swapping "paper" on the futures market and using it as a guide.
The trust in that paper market number is dwindling and the premium increasing on the real thing.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-24/another-gold-shortage-abn-halt-physical-gold-delivery
why are there shortages when the price is dropping?'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB0 -
until all banks can be properly and independently audited no one knows how much gold there is or isn't.
So what? All that matters is whether they are selling some or buying some more.The spot price isn't determined by the physical metal market, it's determined by traders swapping "paper" on the futures market and using it as a guide.
It's exactly that market that establishes what people are prepared to pay. You cannot separate the market price from the price of the metal. Future is people trying to make a fast buck by betting what the price will be at some future time, but for every winner there is a loser.why are there shortages when the price is dropping?
As everyone would to own a shedload of gold, but few do, we clearly have a shortage. Against this background, all of the factors I listed (and more) set the current price.I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
gadgetmind wrote: »So what? All that matters is whether they are selling some or buying some more.
They're not buying and selling physical gold, that's exactly what matters.
When a bank says you can't take physical delivery of your gold because the rules changed and they're going to keep looking after it for you, but they'll happily let you have some of their decorated paper tickets instead, alarm bells should ring loudly. That's a default.
I don't profess to know what's happening and don't have gold, but they're (always) up to something dodgy.'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB0 -
They're not buying and selling physical gold, that's exactly what matters.
Why does this matter? Many assets are traded without the middleman ever seeing the goods.When a bank says you can't take physical delivery of your gold because the rules changed and they're going to keep looking after it for you, but they'll happily let you have some of their decorated paper tickets instead, alarm bells should ring loudly. That's a default.
Yes, and it's also cloud cuckoo land make believe. Under what circumstances does someone buy gold and get an IOU of some kind instead? What are these tickets you're on about? I think we need specifics.I don't profess to know what's happening and don't have gold, but they're (always) up to something dodgy.
The illuminati? The star chamber? Who exactly?I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
gadgetmind wrote: »http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304470504579163871056778000
It's been a while since I spotted a gold bug. It's funny how they are seen in their droves at gold price peaks but barely at all when it drops.
There will come a point when I increase my gold exposure but not until every last bull has capitulated.
Bizarre isn't it.
With shares when the price drops we get posts about how people are going to fill their boots. When the price rises everyone wants to sell (like Royal Mail)
Yet gold bugs are the opposite, shouting buy when the price is high and nothing when it is low. Makes no sense at all to me.Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.0 -
Obama and these fine upstanding folks met on the 11th April
Lloyd Blankfein, Chairman and CEO Goldman Sachs
Jacques Brand, CEO Deutsche Bank
Michael Corbat, Chief Executive Officer Citigroup
Jamie Dimon, Chairman, CEO and President J.P. Morgan Chase
Sergio Ermotti, CEO UBS
James Gorman, Chairman and CEO Morgan Stanley
Gerald Hassell, Chairman and CEO Bank of New York Mellon Corporation
Jay Hooley, Chairman, President and CEO State Street Corporation
Abby Johnson, President, Fidelity Financial Services, Fidelity Investments
Steve Kandarian, Chairman of the Board, President and CEO Metlife
Brian Moynihan, President and CEO Bank of America/Merrill Lynch
John Strangfeld, CEO, Prudential
John Stumpf, Chairman, President and CEO Wells Fargo
Jim Weddle, Managing Partner, Edward Jones
Bob Benmosche, President and CEO American International Group
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-18/what-exactly-did-obama-say-wall-streets-ceos-last-thursday'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB0 -
Thanks for that. I now believe in all the conspiracy theories with a side order of fairies and bigfoot.
Why didn't you just provide a link to zerohedge in the first place?I am not a financial adviser and neither do I play one on television. I might occasionally give bad advice but at least it's free.
Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them.0 -
Obama and these fine upstanding folks met on the 11th April
Lloyd Blankfein, Chairman and CEO Goldman Sachs
Jacques Brand, CEO Deutsche Bank
Michael Corbat, Chief Executive Officer Citigroup
Jamie Dimon, Chairman, CEO and President J.P. Morgan Chase
Sergio Ermotti, CEO UBS
James Gorman, Chairman and CEO Morgan Stanley
Gerald Hassell, Chairman and CEO Bank of New York Mellon Corporation
Jay Hooley, Chairman, President and CEO State Street Corporation
Abby Johnson, President, Fidelity Financial Services, Fidelity Investments
Steve Kandarian, Chairman of the Board, President and CEO Metlife
Brian Moynihan, President and CEO Bank of America/Merrill Lynch
John Strangfeld, CEO, Prudential
John Stumpf, Chairman, President and CEO Wells Fargo
Jim Weddle, Managing Partner, Edward Jones
Bob Benmosche, President and CEO American International Group
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-18/what-exactly-did-obama-say-wall-streets-ceos-last-thursday
OMG!!! what a well argued case for the existence of a semi secret organisation that controls the gold price!
Well done for managing to find out about this secret group of people.0 -
Any non-physically backed ETN, such as LTNG, would fit the definition of "paper gold" I think. Physically backed ones would not (although the conspiracists also seem to think that those aren't really physically backed either...*).
Could be wrong, though, I frequently am!
* NB I am not a subscriber to this particular family of conspiracy theories!0 -
gadgetmind wrote: »Why does this matter? Many assets are traded without the middleman ever seeing the goods.
Yes, and it's also cloud cuckoo land make believe. Under what circumstances does someone buy gold and get an IOU of some kind instead? What are these tickets you're on about? I think we need specifics.
The illuminati? The star chamber? Who exactly?
ABN Amro for one http://www.examiner.com/article/largest-dutch-bank-defaults-on-physical-gold-deliveries-to-customers plus another Dutch outfit whose name I don't recall couldn't come up with the goods.0
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