HS2, is it right for the UK?

grizzly1911

TruckerT wrote: »

When the motorway was new, the crash rate was horrendous (and still is?) - I can remember the headlines about Midland Red buses frequently catching fire.

Didn't they have to have to build a new bus/coach for use on the motorway to cope with the higher average speeds. I remember seeing a documentary on coaches that said something along those lines. It also said how a major coach interchange got closed down somewhere near Cheltenham(?).

TruckerT

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Didn't they have to have to build a new bus/coach for use on the motorway to cope with the higher average speeds. I remember seeing a documentary on coaches that said something along those lines. It also said how a major coach interchange got closed down somewhere near Cheltenham(?).

I'm not sure about Cheltenham (I never have been...) but, just as the Comet jet plane revealed major shortcomings in the understanding of the technology, so did the Midland Red buses. That's progress.

TruckerT

CLAPTON

on a mile for mile travelled basis, motorways have also been (and still are) the safeness roads.

not of course as safe as railways

TruckerT

CLAPTON wrote: »

on a mile for mile travelled basis, motorways have also been (and still are) the safeness roads.

not of course as safe as railways

That is the one remaining problem with motorways, and it can be solved by eliminating the possibility of driver error.

TruckerT

Road_Hog

No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.

TruckerT wrote: »

I wonder why D.Cameron feels able to say that he will cancel the whole HS2 project if the labour party withdraws its support.

TruckerT

Two reasons. One, NeoLabour will not withdraw their support and secondly, Call Me Dave cast iron guarantee is a liar.

TruckerT

Road_Hog wrote: »

Two reasons. One, NeoLabour will not withdraw their support and secondly, Call Me Dave cast iron guarantee is a liar.

On this occasion, I would support D.Cameron - if he feels the need to blame the cancellation of HS2 on the labour party, then so-be-it.

NeoLabour and CallMeDave do not represent the European Governments, and I would be interested to know which European countries are actively planning to establish/extend a high speed rail network.

TruckerT

John_Pierpoint

Road_Hog wrote: »

it's got nothing to do with speed. The EU has its Trans European Nation - Transport project (TEN-T).

It is telling nations where they are going to build rail/road etc., look at the map I posted. They are demanding a European network, that they are then going to take control of and at some point, charge you for using it.

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes/its/road/application_areas/electronic_pricing_and_payment_en.htm


Most of our transport legislation comes from the EU. Have you noticed all those nice new cars that have those LED lights on the whole time? Daylight running lights they are called and who do you think decided we should have them? I'll give you a hint - EU.

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/daytime-running-lights.html

So far the nice free motorways in France, such as the one running SW from Orleans is free because it was EU tax payers who financed it.
So far the French have not been able to tax our food coming in from Spain along this link (and subsequently dodging up to Le Havre before popping up towards Calais on another free bit of motorway.)

I seem to remember that it was the Swedes at Volvo, who pioneered "running lights", probably prior to 1980? [Personally I would try anything to discourage the "sorry mate I didn't see you" situation. Ask any motor cyclist.]

grizzly1911

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

I seem to remember that it was the Swedes at Volvo, who pioneered "running lights", probably prior to 1980? [Personally I would try anything to discourage the "sorry mate I didn't see you" situation. Ask any motor cyclist.]

I have nothing against the principle of running lights.

I do have an objection to how bright the arrays are and the ways they are clustered which in my opinion is overtly "aggressive" in some cases.

Road_Hog

No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.

TruckerT wrote: »

I would be interested to know which European countries are actively planning to establish/extend a high speed rail network.

TruckerT

Countries are not planning to establish a high speed rail network, the EU is. I've already posted the EU link, but here it is again.

http://tentea.ec.europa.eu/images/maps/progress_report_may2010ongoing_projects_20100527_big.jpg


And a Wiki article on TEN-T

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-European_Transport_Networks

John_Pierpoint

Know your enemy:

Planning for the Future

Duration: 30 minutesFirst broadcast:Thursday 07 November 2013
Infrastructure projects can take decades to complete and are meant to last for generations. Planning for new rail networks, roads, bridges, airports - in the UK and overseas - all require assumptions and predictions about the future. What shape will the country's economy be in? Will the population grow or shrink? How might travel patterns change? And will the political regimes support the project over the years?
Evan Davis and guests discuss the problems and pitfalls of planning for the long view.
Guests:
Alison Munro, CEO HS2
Tushar Prabhu, co-owner, Pell Frischmann
Richard Deakin, CEO NATS
Producer: Rosamund Jones.

It is as good listen - the technology is easy, it is the politics that gets in the way.

As I survivor of this process I can confirm you just ignored unless you can get a storm of pressure groups on your side.

Down my way, we have the Arabs learning that transport infrastructure tangles, with Britain's largest pressure groups and Oxbridge colleges, would add considerable risk to a project. Pick on the squeezed middle or the apathetic "it won't make any difference" readers of OK magazine.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03gghkl