HS2, is it right for the UK?

grizzly1911

Road_Hog wrote: »

Sorry, but which part of the bit of, this isn't down to our government, it is an EU directive (as are about 80% of our laws, rules and regulations), do you not understand?

Like I've said, this is part of the EU's grand plan of TEN-T. Here, have a look at the nice map.

http://tentea.ec.europa.eu/images/maps/progress_report_may2010ongoing_projects_20100527_big.jpg

Interesting the concentration of stuff in Spain.

grizzly1911

cells wrote: »

Thisbis a criticism made of comouter driven vehicles too....wat if the software or computer hardware fail?

The solution is simple you have multiple independent comouter control systems.

So instead of ine comouyer system controlling the vehicle (or network) you have three. That way all three systems need to fail simultaneously

An example most people can underatand. Im sure everyone has had their computer crash on th multiple times and it takes a mibute or two to reboot. But how many times gave two of your cinouters crashed at the aame time?

A tri comouter system which has an error/failure once every week and takes a minute to reboot would have all three crash only once every 2 million years. If you want it even safer add a 4th independant comouter and you only have a fsikure once ever 20 billion years (the universe isn't even that old)

Of course you can build in multiple layers of resilience ensuring they are all mirroring each other.

Increasing layers of resilience costs money for ever diminishing returns.

Keeping all those layers and hundreds of thousands of independent modules syncronised and mirrored adds in both additional risk by complexity and latency.

Then of course stuff happens.

Road_Hog

No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Interesting the concentration of stuff in Spain.

I've seen other maps (can't locate them at the moment), which show expansion into Russia and links across to Northern Africa.

They intend to bring Northern Africa (Maghreb) into the EU. The Barcelona Declaration/EuroMed is the draft plan.

http://www.eeas.europa.eu/euromed/docs/bd_en.pdf

They're now looking long term at bringing the Sahel countries in after the Maghreb countries.

http://www.eeas.europa.eu/africa/docs/sahel_strategy_en.pdf

They are also planning to allow Turkish workers full access to the EU for jobs and social security, without Turkey actually becomming a member of the EU. The first paragraph tells you all you need to know.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=COM:2012:0152:FIN:EN:PDF

Will you read any of this in the mainstream media, you bet not. Will a politician ever inform you of what they have planned, you bet not.

I won't even mention Mode 4 immigration.

http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2011/09/01/comment-the-secret-immigration-policy-they-tr

I suppose one day, people willwake up and go, why haven't I got a job anymore, or I can't remember the last time I had a wage rise. Still, there's alwasy jeremy Kyle and X-Factor.

cells

No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.

Road_Hog wrote: »

Sorry, but which part of the bit of, this isn't down to our government, it is an EU directive (as are about 80% of our laws, rules and regulations), do you not understand?

Like I've said, this is part of the EU's grand plan of TEN-T. Here, have a look at the nice map.

http://tentea.ec.europa.eu/images/maps/progress_report_may2010ongoing_projects_20100527_big.jpg

Why would the EU care the trains between Birmingham and London run at 125mph or 200mph its none of these business

Loughton_Monkey

No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.

cells wrote: »

Why would the EU care the trains between Birmingham and London run at 125mph or 200mph its none of these business

It's all part of the 'Master Plan'.

Were you not aware that one day you (or your descendents) will be citizens of the United States of Europe, which will be run on pretty much the same lines as USA [only with cucumber instead of dill in the burgers]?

cells

No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Of course you can build in multiple layers of resilience ensuring they are all mirroring each other.

Increasing layers of resilience costs money for ever diminishing returns.

Keeping all those layers and hundreds of thousands of independent modules syncronised and mirrored adds in both additional risk by complexity and latency.

Then of course stuff happens.

The additional cost of a totally independant computer control system for a self drive car would be about the cost of a smartphone (£100) but reduce the risk of a failure by over 10.000

You are right in that each additional control system is more cost for less benefit

However the cost is so low that you would likely implement two or three independant systems. 3 independent computer systems for a car may cost £300 instead of £100 but failure is reduced to once every two million years.

Alternatively you could design faster reboot computers which will reduce failure considerably at no extra cost. If your system could reboot in 6 seconds rather than 60 seconds your three computer system failure rate goes to once ever two billion years.

Also you could easily design other fail safes. Eg if computer conteol is lost a physical system kicks in to decelerate the car at 20mph per second after it firsr sent a warning signal to the nearby cars. So even if you were going at 80mph you would deceleratw to below 40mph in two seconds.


You are also correct mostales will still happen but with each mistake the software and system would be improved. Compare that to the tens of thousands of himab drivers who cause crashes monthly and the fleet does notnlearn or improve fro lm those mistake.

grizzly1911

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

It's all part of the 'Master Plan'.

Were you not aware that one day you (or your descendents) will be citizens of the United States of Europe, which will be run on pretty much the same lines as USA [only with cucumber instead of dill in the burgers]?

Methinks it will become closer to the USSR model - caviare on your burger?

V & T all round. OK forget the T. OK forget the V too just go straight for meths.

Road_Hog

No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.

cells wrote: »

Why would the EU care the trains between Birmingham and London run at 125mph or 200mph its none of these business

it's got nothing to do with speed. The EU has its Trans European Nation - Transport project (TEN-T).

It is telling nations where they are going to build rail/road etc., look at the map I posted. They are demanding a European network, that they are then going to take control of and at some point, charge you for using it.

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes/its/road/application_areas/electronic_pricing_and_payment_en.htm

I don't know if you remember, but NeoLabour and Gordon Brown attempted to bring in pay per mile, but backed off after the public backlash. And it hasn't gone away, the Tories have it on the back boiler.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/7756596/Coalition-considers-plan-to-sell-off-Britains-roads.html

Most of our transport legislation comes from the EU. Have you noticed all those nice new cars that have those LED lights on the whole time? Daylight running lights they are called and who do you think decided we should have them? I'll give you a hint - EU.

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/daytime-running-lights.html

Oh, and have you heard the bit about the UK upping the speed limit to 80MPH on the motorway and reducing the town/village limits to 20MPH in many places? Do you think Cameron came up with that idea? Here's another clue -EU harmonisation.

MOT test to go from one to every two years, guess who's behind that?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/9002231/MOT-every-two-years-will-cost-motorists-more.html

cells

No, it's a waste of money and it could be better spent elsewhere.

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

It's all part of the 'Master Plan'.

Were you not aware that one day you (or your descendents) will be citizens of the United States of Europe, which will be run on pretty much the same lines as USA [only with cucumber instead of dill in the burgers]?

Sure I expect in time the human race will converge in all ways.

Language culture politics education wealth heath care even religion (or lack of)

That isn't necessarily bad and it certainly won't be quick


Anyway this is about HSRail and I doubt very much the French or Germans would care if it was built or not

TruckerT

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Having ramped up capacity by the use of this technology just imagine what would happen when the blue screen of death impacted the central infrastructure or a strategic server failed.

This is inevitably more likely to happen in winter at night in either heavy rain or snowfall.

Or even worse the system gets hacked by someone who gets their kicks playing GTA.

When the railway was new, there were many accidents/fatalities - I seem to recall that an MP (or some other VIP) was killed in Manchester (or somewhere nearby) on day one!

When the motorway was new, the crash rate was horrendous (and still is?) - I can remember the headlines about Midland Red buses frequently catching fire.

Space travel was pretty dodgy for a while, but today they have sent the Olympic Flame out there, and it's nothing more than a media event.

Road_Hog wrote: »

Sorry, but which part of the bit of, this isn't down to our government, it is an EU directive (as are about 80% of our laws, rules and regulations), do you not understand?

Like I've said, this is part of the EU's grand plan of TEN-T. Here, have a look at the nice map.

http://tentea.ec.europa.eu/images/maps/progress_report_may2010ongoing_projects_20100527_big.jpg

I wonder why D.Cameron feels able to say that he will cancel the whole HS2 project if the labour party withdraws its support.

TruckerT