Issue with Landlord selling

Gwhiz

Some of you may remember this thread I started a month ago about my LL selling.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4776722

For those that have not read it, the basics are that my 12 month AST runs out on 25th November. I have not been been served a Section 21 and the LL knows that I want to stay on until 25th February when my new house will be ready.

Well yesterday the LL called me up and told me the EA thinks they have a buyer and they want to move in on November 26th!

When I told him that it was impossible to move myself, the girlfriend, the dog and all my house contents in 4 weeks, and that he needed to serve me 2 months notice as of the 25th November, his reply was "I hope you are not going to be difficult here".

Now I have been a model tenant; I've kept the property very clean and even trimmed bushes and trees and de-weeded when he asked me to to enable the sale. However, it would seem, after the call, that the LL may only be polite when he gets his own way.

My AST has 2 clauses in it that seem key:

At the beginning of the AST it states that in accordance with the provision of Section 21 of the Housing Act 19888 (1996) recovery of the property is entitled by serving at least 2 months notice.

There is also a break clause giving both parties the right to terminate at the end of the 12 month period by giving "not less than one months notice".

So the question is this; the LL has known since late September that I want to stay until end of Feb and that at the end of the 12 month period I want to move to a periodic monthly contract. He has been happy with this. Now that he seems to want me out asap, what official notice does he have to give me and what are the consequences if I refuse to go until end of Feb?

I have said to him that is he wants to pay all my moving costs and organise another property with broadband already in place (I work from home and need that) then I am happy to consider moving out early but to be honest the upheaval of all this with Christmas and then a move to my hew house on the horizon does not appeal.

Advice gratefully received.

Sensible_Jess

Someone will be along with more specific advice soon, but IMO no solicitor worth their salt will let the buyers exchange contracts with a tenant still in situ. They and the mortgage company will want to ensure the buyers take 'vacant possession'.

(Unless the buyers are looking for a buy-to-let with a tenant already in place)

Also, to be ready to move in after 4 weeks from offer accepted is pretty fast for a house sale....

In your situation, I'd sit tight as no S21 has been issued. But for peace of mind it may be worth contacting the EA for your home and letting them know what the situation is? Your LL may have given them the impression all is sorted and you are vacating the property on the 25th....

Mulder00

I don't think you are doing yourself any favours with being so difficult. Worst case scenario, you get served your two months notice to be out at the end of December. Then, instead of relaxing in a new property over Christmas, you will be looking for properties to rent.

(Four weeks is more than enough time to find a property - we just had the same thing happen to us - landlord decided to sell at the end of September, we started looking, but agents told us it's too early, so we started looking again over the first week of October - we are moving on Monday).

Gwhiz

Mulder00 wrote: »

I don't think you are doing yourself any favours with being so difficult. Worst case scenario, you get served your two months notice to be out at the end of December. Then, instead of relaxing in a new property over Christmas, you will be looking for properties to rent.

(Four weeks is more than enough time to find a property - we just had the same thing happen to us - landlord decided to sell at the end of September, we started looking, but agents told us it's too early, so we started looking again over the first week of October - we are moving on Monday).

You think I'm being difficult? Wanting the LL to honour the contract is difficult? Blimey!

ValHaller

Sensible_Jess wrote: »

Someone will be along with more specific advice soon, but IMO no solicitor worth their salt will let the buyers exchange contracts with a tenant still in situ. They and the mortgage company will want to ensure the buyers take 'vacant possession'.

I don't think that even matters. If the house was sold under OP's feet. the new owner would become OP's Landlord and the only change for OP would be whom he would pay rent to. Which is why solicitors generally will insist on vacant possession in the contract. They might exchange if the Landlord has lied about OP's willingness to move assures them of Vacant Possession, but all that will happen then is tht completion cannot go ahead. Cue one irate Landlord, caught in a mess of his own making.

Gwhiz wrote: »

I have said to him that is he wants to pay all my moving costs and organise another property with broadband already in place (I work from home and need that) then I am happy to consider moving out early but to be honest the upheaval of all this with Christmas and then a move to my hew house on the horizon does not appeal.

Don't forget that if you are landed in a new place, you will have a minimum 6 month contract which will make your plans to move in February very difficult.

If you do hang on for the S21, you are secure till the end of January and the Landlord will have to take you to court for a repo. That will cover you to 25 Feb and allow a bit of slippage. With any luck, the S21 may be invalid.

Although the news that you cannot be evicted until after 25 Feb might make the buyer pull out, in which case the landlord will not be so pressured but will be rather displeased

ValHaller

Mulder00 wrote: »

I don't think you are doing yourself any favours with being so difficult.

It is his home. He is not being difficult.

Mr_Moo_2

As long as he hasn't already served a S21 then there is no need for you to leave at the end of the tenancy - he needs to give you 2 months notice, plus meet all the requirements to have protected any deposit and provided relevant information about this for any S21 to be valid.

Have a look here - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=52421475&postcount=6

There's nothing "difficult" abouyt this - feel free to negotiate an earlier departure if you wish (unlikely by the sound of it), but don't get brow beated into leaving early - there is a clearly defined process to end a tenancy and the law is fully on your side if it isn't followed. But once a valid S21 has been served (and this is a big ask for some LL's to get right) that process starts to kick in. You don't need to be out at expiry of the notice but a court will grant posession to the LL at that stage.

Gwhiz

ValHaller wrote: »

Don't forget that if you are landed in a new place, you will have a minimum 6 month contract which will make your plans to move in February very difficult.

My thoughts exactly.

ValHaller wrote: »

If you do hang on for the S21, you are secure till the end of January and the Landlord will have to take you to court for a repo. That will cover you to 25 Feb and allow a bit of slippage. With any luck, the S21 may be invalid.

Although the news that you cannot be evicted until after 25 Feb might make the buyer pull out, in which case the landlord will not be so pressured but will be rather displeased

If the LL had said, "look, it would be great if you could go early, can we sort something out" I'd have been more than happy to be flexible.

As it is though!

Gwhiz

Mr_Moo wrote: »

As long as he hasn't already served a S21 then there is no need for you to leave at the end of the tenancy - he needs to give you 2 months notice, plus meet all the requirements to have protected any deposit and provided relevant information about this for any S21 to be valid.

Have a look here - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=52421475&postcount=6

There's nothing "difficult" abouyt this - feel free to negotiate an earlier departure if you wish (unlikely by the sound of it), but don't get brow beated into leaving early - there is a clearly defined process to end a tenancy and the law is fully on your side if it isn't followed. But once a valid S21 has been served (and this is a big ask for some LL's to get right) that process starts to kick in. You don't need to be out at expiry of the notice but a court will grant posession to the LL at that stage.

That link is VERY useful, thank you.

m0bov

Just wait for the S21, in the meantime start looking around. I would refuse to talk to the LL, do everything in writing. Make sure the locks are changed and if he turns up in 4 weeks time, or anytime other time without notice, call the Police. Don't let him bully you!

hamster2013

Gwhiz wrote: »

My AST has 2 clauses in it that seem key:

At the beginning of the AST it states that in accordance with the provision of Section 21 of the Housing Act 19888 (1996) recovery of the property is entitled by serving at least 2 months notice.

There is also a break clause giving both parties the right to terminate at the end of the 12 month period by giving "not less than one months notice".

That is all that matters
him knowing what you want, or him agreeing, out of goodwill, to anything else is irrelevant
if he gives you a notice today - which is 29th october, means that by 29th December, you need to vacate

why he should pay for your moving costs, or find you another property is out of my understanding

would you pay for his estate agent commission and the difference in price he gets in the sale of his property between now and 25th of Februrary ?

If you are happy to commit to that legally and in writing with him, i am sure he will agree for you to stay till then.