CMS parking fine

puk123

Recently got a fine asking for £100, reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days.

This was a small private car park- the only sign put up stated "Private premises, you risk being clamped" - which as far as I understand is illegal , I parked at 950pm, the car park was empty and I really didnt think that 1. someone would actually be around to give me a fine at that time 2. it was empty and I felt I wasnt being a nuisance to anyone.

There was no lighting in this place and I didnt see any asking for a permit.

The fine states CMS is acting on behalf of the landlord. And states I did not display a permit. 6 pictures have appparently been taken of the car.

Having read through this forum there seems to be 2 strategies. The first is to appeal and then ask for a POPLA code. The second is the opposite and ignore or correspondence.

I am the RK of the car. I wasn't sure which strategy to take and would appreciate your input.

I was going to go back later today to take pictures of the signs and make sure I didnt miss any stating for a permit.

Kind Regards

zaax

Don't bother if the sign was not obvious - see http://www.pepipoo.com/

Coupon-mad

I say DO BOTHER, our normal advice now is indeed to appeal then win at POPLA. But you only challenge when the scammers send the registered keeper the first letter in the post next month (puts you in a stronger appeal position, and DO NOT infer who was driving in ANY appeal).

So do nothing for now and read some similar threads talking about their appeals.

puk123

right just to clarify, I wait for their letter in 1 month and do nothing now
or
I appeal on their website now and then appeal via popla?

Umkomaas

Here's a 'walk-through' of the process. It's a generic template, saves me typing it out every time but most will apply to you. Get back if anything isn't clear.

A WALK THROUGH THE PROCESS

Firstly, you don't have to pay the charge, it is not a fine, it is not a penalty, it is a speculative invoice from a Private Parking Company that has no statutory authority. However, you will need to go through a few hoops to get rid of it.

The first thing you MUST do is to start to understand what all this stuff is about. The only way to do this is to spend a day or so reading this forum - the most recent threads, say from the past month. If you see the advice 'IGNORE' you MUST ignore it. Ignoring a Parking Charge Notice will bring you months of fun and games that I can assure you, you don't want to be dealing with.

In a nutshell this is the process you will need to follow.

1. Read recent threads.

2. If the parking incident was at a retail park/shop go back to the store the Parking Charge Notice relates to and see THE manager, complain about a genuine customer being harassed and ask that they cancel the ticket. Show him/her any receipts for the day in question. If they are unable to do this ask for the name and address of the MD/CEO, as you will now write to them (and DO it!).

3. If it was a general car parking facility you need to find out who the landowner is (Google search) and send off a letter of complaint to them.

4. If you have receipts for the day (or bank/credit card statements) proving purchases, send (redacted) copies of them to PPC with covering letter stating you were a customer on the day, and shopping at their principal's establishment was the only cause of any overstay.

5. If 2, 3 or 4 above don't work, then you're into the more formal stuff.

6. If it was a windscreen ticket, do not contact the PPC at this point, you must wait for the 'Notice to Keeper' (NtK) to arrive. This should be no sooner than 28 days after the incident and no later than 56 days after it. Theses dates are very important, and you must retain all tickets and letters you receive.

7. If it was an ANPR camera incident and the first correspondence you've received is the NtK, this needs to be received within 14 days of the incident; as above, dates very important, retain all paperwork.

8. Once you receive the NtK the process below will need to be followed.

9. Soft appeal to the PPC (you'll understand this when you start reading the threads).

10. Likely rejection, so in your soft appeal you ask that a POPLA code be given to you if your soft appeal is rejected.

11. Lots more reading about POPLA Appeals (read the 'sticky' at the top of the forum index 'POPLA Decisions', especially the last couple of months' reports of victories - it will give you a good idea of which points win at POPLA).

12. Draft POPLA Appeal and let us see it for further advice before submission.

13. Send to POPLA.

14. Await POPLA (positive) result with PCN cancelled - we're running at 100% success rate on the forum. A POPLA decision is binding on the PPC, but (in the event of an unlikely loss), not binding on you.

---

Please confirm a couple of things (if they are not already contained in your opening post)

a. Was the incident, and do you live, in England or Wales?
b. Is the car a lease/hire or company vehicle (important as the process will be slightly different and you will need to act quickly)?
c. Are you under 18?

---

Now - final, but IMPORTANT points.

* Never say who might or might not have been the driver on the day - there is no obligation on you to do so (some PPCs will ask you to name the driver/motorist before they can deal with your appeal - DO NOT comply with their wishes). In any correspondence with the PPC, always refer to the driver in the third person, never say 'I didn't see the signs' or 'my wife didn't see the signs', you say 'the driver didn't see the signs'.

* Always be aware of any deadlines, PPCs impose them (but most of these are challengeable), but if they are reasonable do keep to them. The important one is the POPLA deadline - strictly 28 days from the date the rejection letter containing the POPLA verification code is sent to you by the PPC. Miss it and you miss the one golden opportunity you have to totally kill this charge. I cannot stress that enough.

Sorry this is a bit long, but it does more or less cover most bases.

Iceweasel

Get a pic of that sign asap - especially as it mentions 'risk of clamping' - which is of course illegal.

I take it this incident took place in England or Wales, and not in Scotland or Northern Ireland?

puk123

Thanks for the help, yeah in leicester. I'll await their letter.

Going to go after work today to look at the signs and take pictures.

I have no idea who the landlord is, there was no mention on the signs or the fine.

puk123

ok so I visited the car park, it definitely does not have any signs on entry, unfortunately it did have signs opposite the entrance (small car park only 8 cars) stating the need to display a valid permit.

Interestingly the clamp sign is an old leicester city council one with the number covered over for the enquiries.

Now do I have any leg to stand on anymore if they have signs showing that a permit needs to be displayed? If so what is my defense?

Umkomaas

puk123 wrote: »

ok so I visited the car park, it definitely does not have any signs on entry, unfortunately it did have signs opposite the entrance (small car park only 8 cars) stating the need to display a valid permit.

Interestingly the clamp sign is an old leicester city council one with the number covered over for the enquiries.

Now do I have any leg to stand on anymore if they have signs showing that a permit needs to be displayed? If so what is my defense?

Didn't see the signs might be a good starting point!

Also the site has to have specific signage at the entrance to comply with the BPA Code of Practice which all PPCs have to sign up to in order for them to be given access to the DVLA database.

So get photos of the entrance and get a complaint off to the BPA and the DVLA. I take it you've had a Notice to Keeper in the post?

steve.c@britishparking.co.uk

elizabeth.symons@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

Here is the BPA's Code of Practice. As far as signage is concerned Section 18 and Appendix B (which shows how an entrance sign should be laid out and what it should contain).

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/609_AOS_CoP_June_2013_update.pdf

But there are plenty of other points on which to base your appeal, but do work through my checklist as the more you understand the process, the better you will handle it.

HTH

puk123

Ive only had the windscreen fine so far, this was yesterday. I'll await the letter through the post first and then email them.

bod1467

I can't see that you've answered the "where are you?" question. So, where are you? (England, Wales, Scotland, NI).