Bank Service

innovate

Why expect that a bank provides a service to certify copies of legal documents, and do it for free, too? Go to a solicitor and pay your fee. Or go to the Post Office, who advertise a chargeable service to certify legal documents.

JuicyJesus

nidO wrote: »

To confirm it's a certified copy.

You do realise that what you're saying is completely circular right?

What is the point of a certified copy? It's to confirm (certify) that it is a copy of an original, authentic document. A certified document that doesn't actually certify anything would be pointless.

chambta

RBS group policy on this changed in recent years. You'd also be politely told 'no' unless it was connected to group related business.

nidO

JuicyJesus wrote: »

You do realise that what you're saying is completely circular right?

What is the point of a certified copy? It's to confirm (certify) that it is a copy of an original, authentic document. A certified document that doesn't actually certify anything would be pointless.

It's to confirm (certify) that the copy is in fact an exact, unchanged, unaltered, copy of the original document as given to the person who copies and certifies it. The original document's authenticity and ownership doesn't come into it anywhere.

JuicyJesus

nidO wrote: »

It's to confirm (certify) that the copy is in fact an exact, unchanged, unaltered, copy of the original document as given to the person who copies and certifies it. The original document's authenticity and ownership doesn't come into it anywhere.

Actually it does. A copy of a document shouldn't be certified if it isn't of an authentic document. A certified copy of a fake driver's license or a fake passport is either pointless or an avenue for fraud, depending on what whoever is requesting the certification wants done with it.

The fact that this is an issue is why banks are withdrawing the service. Because it is open to fraudulent use which they are then responsible for. Bear in mind it has precisely zero direct cost otherwise, and that they could charge for it if they wanted and make a profit, but instead they would rather not do it at all. Surely that tells you something?

Gromitt

I remember certifying a copy of a passport for someone a while back after being pressurised into doing it. I told them that they would have to photocopy it at the library and come back. They did, and I wrote on the photo copy "Certified to be a true copy of the document presented to me.". It was rejected as it didn't contain the words "true copy of the original". I refused to write that as I couldn't confirm the presented document as the original. Cue one unhappy bunny.

nidO

JuicyJesus wrote: »

Actually it does. A copy of a document shouldn't be certified if it isn't of an authentic document. A certified copy of a fake driver's license or a fake passport is either pointless or an avenue for fraud, depending on what whoever is requesting the certification wants done with it.

I hate to just throw links around and this is now getting widely off-topic but basically you're confusing a certified copy (a copy of a document certified to be a true copy of the original copied that can be signed by almost any professional, but with no assurance of the original document's validity) and a notarised certified copy, which is a process carried out by a notary public who will provide a declaration that the copy is a copy of a *genuine* original document.
Sources for this are too numerous to count, anexample directly from a notary is at:

http://www.robertsprake.co.uk/typical-transactions-number-2-certifying-documents-part-1/

Also most legal professional bodies with the exception of notaries also give clear guidance to their members that certified copies do not warrant the original document to be genuine, the first example I can find is ILEx, specified in the first sentence of:

http://www.cilex.org.uk/cilex_journal/journal_home/issue_content/june_2013/june_13_-_memnews_pg_12.aspx

Banks (or their staff) not recognising this difference is probably why many no longer provide certified copies, but a lot will and technically pretty much any "professional" person can do so.

Herbalus

The issue I have is that going to the post office is apparently a viable alternative, yet that is essentially the person behind the counter, probably with no or limited training in fake documents, being willing and able to certify a passport. The £7 fee hardly stops fraudulent documents being certified, and is no more secure than a bank.

The whole certification process is ridiculous. I applied for a secondary cardholder for my John Lewis card, which required all sorts of certified documentation. Even though it is administered by HSBC and we have accounts with First Direct, HSBC refused to certify anything; John Lewis partnership services in store said they couldn't do it; I even sent John Lewis an original drivers license, risking the £20 replacement fee against the cost of certifying it, and that was turned down because it was a provisional. The last I heard a provisional drivers license was a legally approved form of ID.

Archi_Bald

Herbalus wrote: »

The issue I have is that going to the post office is apparently a viable alternative, yet that is essentially the person behind the counter, probably with no or limited training in fake documents, being willing and able to certify a passport. The £7 fee hardly stops fraudulent documents being certified, and is no more secure than a bank.

What is your issue with the PO service? How do you know they had limited/no training? What evidence do you have that they are certifying fraudulent documents?

And if you were right, what have you done / are you doing to stop that untrained / fraudulent operation? How do you explain that the Police / the Home Office have as yet not taken action to shut down the Post Office Service that has been available for several years now? And what is your suggested alternative?

Uxb

Re document certification:
They are merely certifying that the copy they are signing is indeed a correct and accurate photocopy of the page in the original document that they are being presented with for comparison.

They are NOT certifying the 'status' of the original document in any form.

I too have had banks refuse to do mine for the very reasons quoted above and tried to explain the situation as laid out by per poster "nidO" - not that any bank staff realize the difference as the nidO says.