HMO License - I don't think my Landloard has one...

sooz

franklee wrote: »

Unbelievable. So the tenant should have known to ask about HMO licences before moving in and yet no word of censure for the landlord's view it's "some sort of red tape bureaucratic nonsense" when the OP mentioned it to him. It is the landlord meant to be the professional here not the tenant!

Franklee


I was responding to the post that was astounded that in this thread the tenant was being treated like the criminal.

I had not made any comments on the action - or rather inaction - of the landlord.

If the OP was truly concerned by the lack of HMO licence, he could have..

a) called the Council and enquired about the licencing status of his address & complained there and then
b) printed off some basic info from the ODPM/CLG website and given it to his landlord
c) or both

Instead he seems happy to live there, is (mostly) happy with his landlord, but wants to claim his rent back to invest in the same sort of house.

Perhaps he expressed himself badly? :rolleyes:

I know the introduction of HMO licences has been very poorly handled, by both the government and local councils, but I am genuinely suprised how the OP has only just found out about it. Last April there were p*ss poorly thought out adverts in every paper telling landlords and tenants that 'no property licence = no rent' (failing to mention the whole 5 people & 3 floors rule, just suggesting all rental properties needed licences)


I spent a large part of last year and the year before making sure that my properties were up to standards, and wherever possible removing some self contained flats from the section 257 HMOs fiasco by totally upgrading the buildings.

I too am suprised that his landlord does not know about the new HMO rules. Yes - reporting him would level the playing field for honest, law-abiding landlords.

And I agree that he should be reported to the council.

I just think it is very sad that compensation is brought into the equation. For what?

I just don't like the growth of the compensation culture.

iom_dave

Thanks to everyone who has commented!

I have to say I was surprised when I found out about the possible rent reclaim. I suspect the house would have to be a dive (which it isn't) but was interested to see what others would say.

The other issue that concerns me is that I think there may be many LLs out there not fully aware of the issue. I suspect that if there is a fire in a HMO they would have the book thrown at them. Would the insurance even pay out? If someone died in the fire there would be manslaughter charges etc. So while LLs on this forum are busy saying that I am being unreasonable I think LLs should also be more aware of this issue and their new responsibilities under this act.

I was more trying to gauge what I should be as a next step - I think making it clear to him the issues he faces. At the moment he is busy getting awkward with one of my housemates who is about to move out - have mentioned to housemate the issue.

I can more or less work out the profit the LL is making over the mortgage and it should be in the order of £500 p.m. The reason he is making that money is that the house was cheap (hence lower BTL etc) since professional landlords would not want the hassle of converting the place to be HMO compliant!

If I was just after the money I would have just gone to the council and reported him.

As for the idea that I should work harder - i do work 10+ hour days...

One further thought:-

If you rented a car and it turned out to have failed its MOT would you want the money back?

iom_dave

As for why I've only just found out about it - only moved back to the uk recently - though that doesn't apply to the LL!

sooz

Hi Dave,

I think it is probably unlikely that by reporting him you'd actually get any rent back

You yourself quoted "In certain cases, rent from housing benefit or paid by tenants themselves can be reclaimed if a landlord is found to be operating a licensable HMO without a licence. If a landlord has been convicted of the offence (or the local housing authority is satisfied that the offence has been committed even though the landlord has not been prosecuted), a local housing authority can reclaim any benefits paid when the landlord was operating without a licence by applying for a Rent Repayment Order"

I think they pretty much cover themselves by the 'in certain cases' and 'convicted' parts.

If you want to make a complaint about this, do so before your housemate moves out. With only 4 in the property, it would no longer require a licence.

And you have missed the other part of the legislation

Finally, a landlord without a licence will not be able to use a section 21 notice to evict tenants. (A section 21 notice can be used by landlords to serve notice to quit on tenants simply because he wants to regain possession of his property, not on grounds of rent arrears or other reasons.)

If you are happy with the accomodation, and feel that he will not mess you about with the return of your and your housemates' deposits, then print off some info and give it to him & tell him you will be calling in x weeks time to check the progress of his licence application. Or ask if you can use the now spare room for yourself (once the other housemate moves out), at the same rent you are currently paying, to save him the hassle of licencing.

If not, call the council, but don't hold out for your money back..however, the good news is providing you keep paying your rent, he can't throw you out for it.


and just for your info when you start looking for a new place to rent, don't forget to read up about the new deposit scheme

http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1504444

iom_dave

Thanks sooz, thats more or less the conclusion I was coming to (4 people may be the solution). Things that sound too good to be true normally are...

I'll mention this all to the LL when he next appears.

PROFESSIONAL_LANDLORD

Originally Posted by iom_dave
Any thoughts as to what the conditions are rent would be repaid?

I would like to add I'm not trying to con my landlord etc but £3000 is £3000 (the rent to date) - and would help towards a house deposit one day!



If you get the £3000 back ( don't forget you will have been living there 6 months for nout ) can we ( the other taxpayers and I ) get our money back, considering it's us who paid your Housing Benefit.

red40

PROFESSIONAL_LANDLORD wrote: »

If you get the £3000 back ( don't forget you will have been living there 6 months for nout ) can we ( the other taxpayers and I ) get our money back, considering it's us who paid your Housing Benefit.

PL I doubt that iom_dave is claiming housing benefit as he already works 10+ hours (unless its cash in hand). If he was claiming housing benefit it wouldn't be the occupier who receives the rent back, the landlord would have pay the benefit back to the council.

The occupant who is paying rent whilst working can only claim the rent back for themselves once the council have become involved. Only then can they lay claim to the paid rent by means of a Rent Repayment Order.

Even if he reduces to 4, he is still operating a HMO and therefore all the legislation applies HHSRS, management regs, tenancy deposit regs, everything apart from mandatory licensing.


If iom_dave wants to claim the rent back, good on you. Its not your fault your landlord choses to ignore the current housing legislation. The sooner landlords like this are brought to book or removed from the private rented sector the better, I say. :beer:

Madjock

I wonder if the landlord's mortgage provider knows the property is a HMO, official or not?