Faulty iPhone

kittymac1

Hi,

I'm after a bit of advice, my iPhone 4S has developed a problem with it's wifi connection in that it no longer works. I have looked online and it seems to be quite a common fault.

Anyway, i looked on the Apple forums and did all the resets and fault finding things that were suggested to no avail, i then spoke to apple live support and they said that because it is over a year old the warranty has expired and offered me several options. Obviously i don't want to pay for a repair as i haven't broken it, it has just stopped working. The phone is under contract with O2 and i would be due an upgrade at the end of November. O2 said they couldn't do anything but i could pay to be upgraded early.

Finally after reading further, i stumbled across an article referring to the EU consumer laws and me having a warranty of 2 years on any product. Having gone back and mentioned this to both Apple and Carphone Warehouse (who is the original seller) i am still at a loss, with everybody telling me it is not their problem and that i have to pay for an out of warranty repair.

This doesn't seem right to me, as i haven't misused the phone and on Friday it worked and on Saturday it didn't.

I have free insurance through my bank (Halifax) but again there is quite a big excess to pay of £100.

My plan was to keep my current phone when my contract was up and sell on my new model, to raise some money for our wedding savings.

Any advice?

grumbler

kittymac1 wrote: »

Finally after reading further, i stumbled across an article referring to the EU consumer laws and me having a warranty of 2 years on any product. Having gone back and mentioned this to both Apple and Carphone Warehouse (who is the original seller) i am still at a loss, with everybody telling me it is not their problem and that i have to pay for an out of warranty repair.

Of course they are telling you this because they don't want to pay and most customers don't know their rights.

In UK it's the Sale of the Goods Act that says the it's CPW that has to repair or replace the handset if it doesn't last for a reasonable time.
It's pretty obvious for everyone that the reasonable time for iPhone is much longer than 1 year that Apple offer their pathetic warranty for. The only problem is that after 6 months the onus lies on you to prove that the fault was not caused by the user-inflicted damage.

So,

1. See MSE article Consumer Rights Armour ,
2. Remind CPW about the SoGA,
3. If they refuse to repair/replace it, send them a Letter Before Action giving them, say, 10 days to do this and saying that you are submitting a claim to the small claims court otherwise.
4. If they blame you for damaging the phone, get an independent report that it isn't the case. You'll have to pay for it, but can recover the cost if your sue CPW, even if they (most likely) settle before the cost hearings.

I have free insurance through my bank (Halifax) but again there is quite a big excess to pay of £100.

Insurances normally don't cover faults.

My plan was to keep my current phone when my contract was up and sell on my new model, to raise some money for our wedding savings.

Pretty often you can save more money just by switching to sim-only with the right provider.

NFH

Where goods are supplied as a standalone product, the Sale of Goods Act 1979 applies. However, where goods are supplied in conjunction with a service (as is the case here), the relevant legislation is Section 11N of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 which obliges the supplier (not the manufacturer) to repair or replace defective goods free of charge if they develop a defect within a reasonable time after their supply. This legislation is over 30 years old and has been well tested in court. The law doesn't define what a reasonable time is, but where goods are supplied in conjunction with a service, a court would determine a reasonable time to be at least the minimum duration of the service contract, and in the case of an iPhone a long time afterwards (based on its retail price under Section 4(2A) of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982). The maximum time is limited to six years by Section 5 of the Limitation Act 1980 but that doesn't necessarily that mean the goods would be expected to last that long.

It is irrelevant that the network has separate written agreements for the goods and the service because:

• The goods were supplied with the intention that they be used with the service.
• The goods were supplied at the price paid on condition of entering into the contract for service.
• The goods were funded, either partially or fully, by the monthly charge for service.
• The goods were supplied at the same time that the service started.
• The goods and service were marketed as a package.

The part I'm not sure about in your case is whether the liability falls with O2 or the Carphone Warehouse or both.

Any warranty is a contractual right which is in addition to, and cannot replace, the consumer's statutory rights under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. If O2 or the Carphone Warehouse tells you that it has no liability after the warranty expires, it is mistaken and the staff concerned are poorly trained. If they allege that the fault was caused by your misuse or negligence, then you will have to obtain an independent report, the cost of which you can claim back from them if it proves that the fault was caused by defective manufacturing or software.

kittymac1 wrote: »

Finally after reading further, i stumbled across an article referring to the EU consumer laws and me having a warranty of 2 years on any product.

Article 5(1) of Directive 1999/44/EC, which is often misquoted as a mandatory "European two-year warranty", merely states that the limitation period may not be less than two years from the date of delivery. Given that UK legislation already allows more than two years (see above), the Article has no effect upon UK legislation. Therefore you can ignore this.

NFH

Malcnascar wrote: »

From apple uk web
www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/

Apple are so honest about this only because they got into trouble in Italy for selling warranties that offered little more than Italian statutory rights. However the main purpose of this page is to sell you the idea that using their warranty or extended warranty is less hassle. As they correctly say, the OP would need to contact the seller, which he is already doing.

kittymac1

Is contacting Carphone Warehouse via email ok or would Post be better, i need to get this resolved as soon as i can. Is there any letter templates anybody can suggest to ensure i get all the detail i need in.

I am very grateful for all the support so far, this has been a very stressful day running around in circles.

Thanks

NFH

kittymac1 wrote: »

Is contacting Carphone Warehouse via email ok or would Post be better, i need to get this resolved as soon as i can. Is there any letter templates anybody can suggest to ensure i get all the detail i need in.

You don't need a template. Just quote the above legislation and demand a repair or replacement. Keep it concise and exclude any superfluous information.

kittymac1

Does this sound ok? I am not very good at this!


I have been in contact with your online support and into two branches to discuss a fault with my iPhone, my wifi connection has become faulty and will no longer switch on. I was told that i had to contact Apple to have it repaired, however i would like to provide you with the following information to assist with getting my phone repaired or replaced.

Where goods are supplied in conjunction with a service (as is the case here), the relevant legislation is Section 11N of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 which obliges the supplier (not the manufacturer) to repair or replace defective goods free of charge if they develop a defect within a reasonable time after their supply. This legislation is over 30 years old and has been well tested in court. The law doesn't define what a reasonable time is, but where goods are supplied in conjunction with a service, a court would determine a reasonable time to be at least the minimum duration of the service contract, and in the case of an iPhone a long time afterwards (based on its retail price under Section 4(2A) of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982). The maximum time is limited to six years by Section 5 of the Limitation Act 1980 but that doesn't necessarily that mean the goods would be expected to last that long.

It is irrelevant that the network has separate written agreements for the goods and the service because:
The goods were supplied with the intention that they be used with the service.
The goods were supplied at the price paid on condition of entering into the contract for service.
The goods were funded, either partially or fully, by the monthly charge for service.
The goods were supplied at the same time that the service started.
The goods and service were marketed as a package.

Could somebody please get back to me within 7 days with a suitable plan to repair or replace my phone.

NFH

No, just say:

My iPhone 4S is manifesting a fault which is common with this model [describe the fault and what has happened so far]. I am not claiming under the warranty because it has expired, but under Section 11N of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. In accordance with your obligations under this legislation, please arrange forthwith to repair or replace my defective iPhone 4S free of charge and without causing me significant inconvenience. If you do not do so, then I will arrange such a repair or replacement myself and will claim back the cost from you in the Small Claims track of the County Court.

grumbler

kittymac1 wrote: »

Does this sound ok? I am not very good at this!

I have been in contact with your online support and into two branches to discuss a fault with my iPhone, my wifi connection has become faulty and will no longer switch on. I was told that i had to contact Apple to have it repaired, however i would like to provide you with the following information to assist with getting my phone repaired or replaced.

Where goods are supplied in conjunction with a service (as is the case here), the relevant legislation is Section 11N of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 which obliges the supplier (not the manufacturer) to repair or replace defective goods free of charge if they develop a defect within a reasonable time after their supply. This legislation is over 30 years old and has been well tested in court. The law doesn't define what a reasonable time is, but where goods are supplied in conjunction with a service, a court would determine a reasonable time to be at least the minimum duration of the service contract, and in the case of an iPhone a long time afterwards (based on its retail price under Section 4(2A) of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982). The maximum time is limited to six years by Section 5 of the Limitation Act 1980 but that doesn't necessarily that mean the goods would be expected to last that long.

It is irrelevant that the network has separate written agreements for the goods and the service because:
The goods were supplied with the intention that they be used with the service.
The goods were supplied at the price paid on condition of entering into the contract for service.
The goods were funded, either partially or fully, by the monthly charge for service.
The goods were supplied at the same time that the service started.
The goods and service were marketed as a package.

Could somebody please get back to me within 7 days with a suitable plan to repair or replace my phone.

My iPhone that you supplied me with 15[?] months ago [order/invoice etc. full details] has never been damaged, but developed a common fault. Your online support and two branches fobbed me off by telling me that i had to contact Apple to have it repaired.

Could I remind you that under SoGSA (SOGA if you [CPW] prefer) it's your responsibility, not the manufacturer's, to repair or replace the phone? Apple say the same on their website: www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/.

I give you 7 days to make arrangements for collecting the handset to have it repaired or replaced. If you prefer I can deliver it to the nearest branch.

If you fail to do this I will make my own arrangements to have it repaired or replaced and will submit a claim against you to the small claims court for all my expenses and the inconvenience you caused me.

Looking forward to you getting in touch ASAP.

Best regards,
...

kittymac1

This is the reply i have just had from Carphone Warehouse.

Thank you for your email regarding your iPhone.



I've tried to call you today on 0000000000000 to discuss this matter, however I was only able to leave a voicemail.



I'm very sorry to hear that your handset has developed a fault. My colleague Geoff has logged this as a complaint for you with reference PCR0806438.


I can confirm that as Apple only provide a 1 year manufacturers warranty, this is the reason that we're unable to repair the phone for you free of charge. We as a retailer are only able to repair a phone if this is covered under the manufacturers warranty. As Apple only supply a 12 month warranty, we're only able to repair within this time frame.

With the majority of manufacturers, they offer a 24 month warranty. The only manufacturers that don't offer this are Apple and LG. Again, this is set directly by the manufacturer as appose to Carphone Warehouse

With the Sales of Goods Act, this covers you for up to 6 years providing that the issue is brought to the sellers attention within a reasonable amount of time. This is deemed as 6 months.

It also states, goods which do not conform to the contract of sale at any time within the period of six months starting with the date on which the goods were delivered to the buyer, must be taken not to have so conformed at that date.

As your handset was purchased 20 months ago and the issue was first brought to our attention in the 20th month, your handset wouldn't be deemed as faulty within a reasonable amount of time. I'm very sorry, we would be unable to exchange this for you, or offer a free of charge repair

I can advise that you're able to book your phone in for repair, however this would be a chargeable repair. If you wish to book your phone in, please visit any Carphone Warehouse store so that they can arrange this and they can confirm the charge involved for this. If you're able to provide a diagnostic fault report from Apple on letter headed paper, confirming that the handset was faulty from the point of sale, then I can certainly look into this further for you.



Once again please accept my apologies for any inconvenience caused and if there is anything else that I can help you with please reply to this email and we'll be happy to help you. Alternatively you could contact our Complaints Team on 0845 655 7900.



What next?

grumbler

kittymac1 wrote: »

I can confirm that as Apple only provide a 1 year manufacturers warranty, this is the reason that we're unable to repair the phone for you free of charge.
We as a retailer are only able to repair a phone if this is covered under the manufacturers warranty. As Apple only supply a 12 month warranty, we're only able to repair within this time frame.

With the majority of manufacturers, they offer a 24 month warranty. The only manufacturers that don't offer this are Apple and LG. Again, this is set directly by the manufacturer as appose to Carphone Warehouse

Nonsense. Their obligations have nothing to do with the warranty.

With the Sales of Goods Act, this covers you for up to 6 years providing that the issue is brought to the sellers attention within a reasonable amount of time. This is deemed as 6 months.

Another rubbish. Deemed by whom? Definitely not by SoGA/SoGaSA

It also states, goods which do not conform to the contract of sale at any time within the period of six months starting with the date on which the goods were delivered to the buyer, must be taken not to have so conformed at that date.

This makes no sense to me.

As your handset was purchased 20 months ago and the issue was first brought to our attention in the 20th month, your handset wouldn't be deemed as faulty within a reasonable amount of time. I'm very sorry, we would be unable to exchange this for you, or offer a free of charge repair

Again, deemed by CPW, but extremely unlikely to be deemed by any judge.

What next?

If you told them that you would have it repaired/replaced and would claim the cost from them, then just do this.
I think you can submit a claim for a market value of your handset plus the cost of the report plus the inconvenience even without repairing or replacing it.
As they don't claim that it wasn't an inherent fault, you probably don't even need to prove this, but it's better to have an independent report just in case. This can be probably done together with repairing if you decide to have it repaired, but I don't know whether there are any reputable companies repairing iPhones without getting Apple involved. If you have it replaced by Apple, I don't think that they will give you the report you need.

For the Small Claims Court see MSE articles:
How to complain: Know your consumer rights and how to use them...
Use the small claims court to claim money back - Money Saving Expert

CPW are fobbing you off, that is understandable because they don't take you seriously. However, I am 99% sure that they will settle before the court hearing if you submit a claim.