Should the energy industry be renationalised?

Southend1

Cardew wrote: »

There was a thread recently that discussed the history of energy prices. When Gas/Electricity was privatised in the 1990s there was a marked fall in energy bills.

The distribution companies are not making huge profits(in percentage terms) and for re-nationalisation to work the foreign suppliers of energy would need to be taken over. 'Hi Mr Putin, Would you have any objections if we take Gazprom into UK Government ownership'!

A far bigger factor than the profit margins of the companies is the so called 'Green Levy' where the Government have decided customers will pay(and not general taxation) the massive subsidies to firms producing energy from solar/wind etc.

Customers also pay for the social tariffs for the less well off and cross-subsidies for pre-pay tariffs.

I know they say the retail margin is only 5% but does anyone know what the margins are if upstream profits are included?

Andy_WSM

Possibly should never have been nationalised, but it's too late to go back now, so pointless poll / petition.

The Government are far from innocent here, despite all the bull they are coming out with currently.

Southend1

ihateyes wrote: »

Renationalising means the Government has to basically buy the companies back....

Who pays for that?

In pucblic services there is so much red tape, that the slightest thing to be done, will require feasibility studies... blah blah

Why are bills so high at the moment? Government taxes! they wont go away

My solution is companies cannot have own mainstream businesses and residential businesses.

Could they maybe use some of the QE money for renationalisation?

I think a recent study said the green taxes will save customers more money than they cost

Southend1

pooch wrote: »

What about it?

And how does it compare to the price a bloated, nationalised monopoly could charge. Of course, at least when the lights went out, they couldn't charge for usage ... but the standing charges still applied.



Er, yes there is a choice!

Have you looked at any energy comparison site?
There seem to be almost 20 different suppliers to choose from probably offering over 100 different tariffs in total (although this has reduced in recent times due to government regulatory intervention) :cool:

The point was that the companies are all as bad as each other. They collude to keep prices similar and many are just resellers anyway. So there is a choice on the face of it but it's not a real choice

spot1034

Southend1 wrote: »

Interesting stuff. The votes are 50/50 at the moment but the comments seem to be largely against renationalisation.

That's because the people who want it have no coherent argument - they just have theis vague idea that it would somehow mean lower bills. In fact, it wouldn't - if anything they would probably be higher.

antrobus

Southend1 wrote: »

I know they say the retail margin is only 5% but does anyone know what the margins are if upstream profits are included?

A lot bigger.

But then the 'upstream profits' i.e. those that accrue from the extraction of the raw materials, as in gas, oil, coal, will be in the hands of those entities that are in possession of said raw materials. I'm not that convinced that establishing that the gas that Qatar is selling us at $1000 a tonne (or whatever it is) only costs them £50 a tonne to extract and ship to Milford Haven is necessarily going to change anything.

Although I suppose we could just invade Qatar.:)

MillicentBystander

In an ideal World I would greatly welcome re-nationalisation of this appalling industry of Thatcher's making and successive Govt's perpetuation. But we've spent all our money (and more besides) propping up yet another casualty of the supposed (on here) fantastic capitalist system. It just isn't going to happen so the ONLY way forward is to properly regulate the b******* so that they are at least acting transaperently and genuinely have to compete for those millions upon millions of households. Won't happen of course no matter which party is in power.

Cardew

Southend1 wrote: »

I know they say the retail margin is only 5% but does anyone know what the margins are if upstream profits are included?

Yes they are all published, but include French and German owned companies.

Centrica supply energy not only to BG(who they own).

Perhaps we should privatise Tesco who make far more profit than BG and Centrica combined.

However United Biscuits Ltd(is there such a firm?) also make a profit - so we should privatise them.

I am sick of high petrol prices and BP/Esso make huge profits, so again privatise!

The point being that if it is deemed that Energy companies are making excessive profits, then the Government can Tax, Tax, and Tax again as they did with the North Sea windfall tax.

chris-j

Proper regulation required not nationalisation which would just make it a public sector money pit.
Regulators are toothless and scared of government for some reason. They have allowed government to get customers to fund crazy green ideas which are doing nothing more than filling pockets of land owners and subsidising solar panels on peoples roofs. If these green energy ideas are so good and efficient why are all energy customers having tk provide the financial bribe for people to take up the technology.

People are also there own worst enemies on this, it takes hardly any time at all to do comparison and transferring suppliers is easy yet the lethargic british public continue to stick with same supplier.

Cardew

antrobus wrote: »

Although I suppose we could just invade Qatar.:)

Well if it will stop the stupid idea of holding the World Cup there in 2022, we could give it a go.

I believe they tolerate cruelty to their donkeys and camels(the real ones - not footballers) - so that will get a few pressure groups on our side.