shortage of homes in the UK?

Tancred

hazyjo wrote: »

France is just over twice the size. Only so much land space surely...

Jx

There are plenty of brownfield sites that are not being used. It's not a simple question of land - it's how the existing land is being used. The other problem is that on the continent most people tend to live in apartments whereas here people want houses with gardens etc. In terms of size and population density Britain is more like Japan than the USA or Australia, we simply can't afford to continue building huge 4-5 bedroom houses any more. We need to build more smaller and space efficient dwellings.

lord_tyrannus

Tancred wrote: »

There are plenty of brownfield sites that are not being used. It's not a simple question of land - it's how the existing land is being used. The other problem is that on the continent most people tend to live in apartments whereas here people want houses with gardens etc. In terms of size and population density Britain is more like Japan than the USA or Australia, we simply can't afford to continue building huge 4-5 bedroom houses any more. We need to build more smaller and space efficient dwellings.

I don't think that's true at all about most of the continent living in apartments or we need smaller dwellings here it's a fact that the UK builds the smallest houses in Europe well which most of them RIBA say are built below the minimum space standard

Check this out
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22152622

How can Holland & Denmark build homes that are 50-80% bigger than they are in the uk but they have half the space we do

Only 2.27% of land in the uk is built on .The problem is there's not the political will or money to build new towns along with all the associated infrastructure to go with it or deal with the complex planning laws and nimby brigade in the uk. A good example is the development I'm moving to in Hampshire which recently had a additional planning application for an extra 500 homes which was opposed by one of the ward parish councils as being "unsustainable" which is the new buzz word for opposing developments

another example how much the uk is built on
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096

hazyjo

'In England's green and pleasant land'...

We tried towerblock living. Unless they're sold at at least half a million in London or major cities with a concierge/front desk reception/underground parking, they don't seem to work here!

Jx

Tancred

lord_tyrannus wrote: »

I don't think that's true at all about most of the continent living in apartments or we need smaller dwellings here it's a fact that the UK builds the smallest houses in Europe well which most of them RIBA say are built below the minimum space standard

Check this out
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22152622

How can Holland & Denmark build homes that are 50-80% bigger than they are in the uk but they have half the space we do

Only 2.27% of land in the uk is built on .The problem is there's not the political will or money to build new towns along with all the associated infrastructure to go with it or deal with the complex planning laws and nimby brigade in the uk. A good example is the development I'm moving to in Hampshire which recently had a additional planning application for an extra 500 homes which was opposed by one of the ward parish councils as being "unsustainable" which is the new buzz word for opposing developments

another example how much the uk is built on
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096

Point taken. My new 3 bedroom home is infact only 88 sq m!

However, a lot of the problem is that house builders are basically greedy and want to squeeze as many people as possible into smaller and smaller areas of land. Is the fault of planning laws? Probably, but there is no guarantee that rooms would get any bigger even with more land for development. I'm now seeing that new houses no longer have dining rooms - the new style is for a 'dining area' within the kitchen, something that would have been laughed at not so many years ago. And the third bedroom has now become the 'box room' - not even suitable for a single bed any more.

CLAPTON

Tancred wrote: »

Point taken. My new 3 bedroom home is infact only 88 sq m!

However, a lot of the problem is that house builders are basically greedy and want to squeeze as many people as possible into smaller and smaller areas of land. Is the fault of planning laws? Probably, but there is no guarantee that rooms would get any bigger even with more land for development. I'm now seeing that new houses no longer have dining rooms - the new style is for a 'dining area' within the kitchen, something that would have been laughed at not so many years ago. And the third bedroom has now become the 'box room' - not even suitable for a single bed any more.

greedy builders made a loss between 2008 and 2012:
not very clever are they?


In any event, building properties is quite easy and there are plenty of suitably skilled people;
so anyone with a modicum of project management skills could corner the market with large, well made houses and make a fortune too.
Here is an opportunity for you be become a millionaire and a hero overnight.
What could go wrong?

cells

Tancred wrote: »

Point taken. My new 3 bedroom home is infact only 88 sq m!

However, a lot of the problem is that house builders are basically greedy and want to squeeze as many people as possible into smaller and smaller areas of land. Is the fault of planning laws? Probably, but there is no guarantee that rooms would get any bigger even with more land for development. I'm now seeing that new houses no longer have dining rooms - the new style is for a 'dining area' within the kitchen, something that would have been laughed at not so many years ago. And the third bedroom has now become the 'box room' - not even suitable for a single bed any more.

Why are the German and French builders on average building 120sqm homes?

Why don't they build smaller to supposedly male more profit?

Its not our builders its government policy that we build few and we build them small

cells

CLAPTON wrote: »

greedy builders made a loss between 2008 and 2012:
not very clever are they?


In any event, building properties is quite easy and there are plenty of suitably skilled people;
so anyone with a modicum of project management skills could corner the market with large, well made houses and make a fortune too.
Here is an opportunity for you be become a millionaire and a hero overnight.
What could go wrong?

the problem is that it costs too much to build in the uk

A new build 80sqm home costs about 180k to build and a builder sells it for 200k

By comparison a 120sqm new build in France or Germany costs closer to 100k

Wages and materials don't cost more in the uk so what is it?

Its simply top few permits are given (massively inflating development land prices vs agricultural) and nonsensical extra burden are placed on new buolds which further drive up costs


Anyway I started this thread to highlight the huge difference in build rates between two very demographically similar nations. France builds close to 400k we build closer to 100k a year. Few people know this and more should

CLAPTON

cells wrote: »

the problem is that it costs too much to build in the uk

A new build 80sqm home costs about 180k to build and a builder sells it for 200k

By comparison a 120sqm new build in France or Germany costs closer to 100k

Wages and materials don't cost more in the uk so what is it?

Its simply top few permits are given (massively inflating development land prices vs agricultural) and nonsensical extra burden are placed on new buolds which further drive up costs


Anyway I started this thread to highlight the huge difference in build rates between two very demographically similar nations. France builds close to 400k we build closer to 100k a year. Few people know this and more should

indeed so

where I live agricultural land is about 10-20k per acre
building land is about £1 million per acre

plus infrastructure levies and costs of affordable housing.

lord_tyrannus

Tancred wrote: »

Point taken. My new 3 bedroom home is infact only 88 sq m!

However, a lot of the problem is that house builders are basically greedy and want to squeeze as many people as possible into smaller and smaller areas of land. Is the fault of planning laws? Probably, but there is no guarantee that rooms would get any bigger even with more land for development. I'm now seeing that new houses no longer have dining rooms - the new style is for a 'dining area' within the kitchen, something that would have been laughed at not so many years ago. And the third bedroom has now become the 'box room' - not even suitable for a single bed any more.

I completely agree with you they are greedy and they want to squeeze as many people in as possible to maximize profit. Really there needs to be minimum square footage for new builds backed up in law but would the house builders then use this excuse to drive prices up

I keep referencing it but they really need to build a few Milton Keynes size city's to deal with the demand but even then MK was started in the 60's/70's and it's still not finished

CLAPTON

lord_tyrannus wrote: »

I completely agree with you they are greedy and they want to squeeze as many people in as possible to maximize profit. Really there needs to be minimum square footage for new builds backed up in law but would the house builders then use this excuse to drive prices up

I keep referencing it but they really need to build a few Milton Keynes size city's to deal with the demand but even then MK was started in the 60's/70's and it's still not finished

the price of houses is set by supply and demand

the price of new builds are affected by the value of the existing stock

there are too few new houses being built because of the price of land with planning permission and the government imposed costs

the price of land with planning permission is determined by government imposed scarcity.

given there are 1000s of builders in the country then if building houses was so profitable they would build many more

I know you won't, but you can look up the big builders annual accounts are be amazed at their huge profits and report back