shortage of homes in the UK?

cells

The UK builds currently about 130,000 homes a year

France a nation of almost the same population and a similarly growing population has been building 350,000 - 400,000 a year

Surely there is a shortage in the UK hence our much higher prices and rents

So is it a gppd or bad thing that we build so few homes?

hazyjo

France is just over twice the size. Only so much land space surely...

Jx

cells

hazyjo wrote: »

France is just over twice the size. Only so much land space surely...

Jx

So we build about 1/3rd the rate becuase we have not the space?

Also what about demand
Surely two countries who have almost the same population and almost the same population growth earnig almost the same wages will have similar demand

So is it the case the French demand 350-400k and get it becuase there is the space to build that many. We demand 350-400k but only get 130k and prices increase to ration supply?

pinkshoes

We live on a small island, and import enough food already, so it's very important not to build over too much more green belt land.

France is MUCH bigger than the UK, so more space to build.

If the UK had to become self sufficient, I doubt we'd have enough green land to grow enough crops for our population, so people would starve and die, then we wouldn't need any more houses

cells

pinkshoes wrote: »

We live on a small island, and import enough food already, so it's very important not to build over too much more green belt land.

France is MUCH bigger than the UK, so more space to build.

If the UK had to become self sufficient, I doubt we'd have enough green land to grow enough crops for our population, so people would starve and die, then we wouldn't need any more houses

This is a common misconception

The uk virtually grows all the grow-able crops we eat.

Around 70% is produced domestically. You cannot increase that to 100% without making it illegal to eat foods that can only grow elsewhere. So even if the uk was 100x the size we would still import about the same as we could still not grow bananas coconuts watermelons sunflower oil olives. ..etc etc...in the uk

Even net food exporters import a large quantity of food for the same reason

So please stop spreading that fake wrong misunderstood information.

Also homes take up very little space.



But my question isn't really about. ...shoild we build more

If France and the uk have virtually tje same population and growth rate and income which country is the odd one out. France building close to 400k units a year or the uk building close to 100k a year?

Something is odd with one of the two nations. Im leaning towards us building far top few homes as opposed to France massively over building

Seabee42

Its a complicated question and has lots of people on all sides of the fence some who obviously gain.

In reality in this country it is about immigration as population growth of the native population has been flat and there has been growth only because of immigration and children born to immigrants. So if you want to build new houses what you are saying is please come live here and we will build you a house.

Should we really pave over the countryside for that?

To some extent the building growth is not the sensible number anyways it is the total supply of accommodation.

Linton

Seabee42 wrote: »

Its a complicated question and has lots of people on all sides of the fence some who obviously gain.

In reality in this country it is about immigration as population growth of the native population has been flat and there has been growth only because of immigration and children born to immigrants. So if you want to build new houses what you are saying is please come live here and we will build you a house.

......

Wrong. A major factor has been changes in the family. Divorce splits a family in two and so may give rise to the need for an extra house. People are living longer and elderly people are staying in their homes rather than moving in with their children or moving to a care home. In the old days children often lived with their parents until they married and then moved as a couple into a new home. Now they dont. All these factors have caused a significant reduction in the average number of people per household.

cells

Seabee42 wrote: »

Its a complicated question and has lots of people on all sides of the fence some who obviously gain.

In reality in this country it is about immigration as population growth of the native population has been flat and there has been growth only because of immigration and children born to immigrants. So if you want to build new houses what you are saying is please come live here and we will build you a house.

Should we really pave over the countryside for that?

To some extent the building growth is not the sensible number anyways it is the total supply of accommodation.

I very very much doubt if Mr and Mrs foreigner look up UK rents and house prices before they come here. Most will come off the back of friends/family recommending it and imo the biggest draw is of course the English language.

You are right its not only the building rate but also the total supply of existing homes. But here again the uk is worse off. Per capita we have the fewest homes out of France Spain Germany and Ireland.

Also of course France too has immigrants and immigration

So once more.

Why the stark difference. France is building close to 400,000 units a year while we are building closer to 100,000 a year.

Both nations have similar demographics and growth and total population

So how can housing need be so different?

cells

Linton wrote: »

Wrong. A major factor has been changes in the family. Divorce splits a family in two and so may give rise to the need for an extra house. People are living longer and elderly people are staying in their homes rather than moving in with their children or moving to a care home. In the old days children often lived with their parents until they married and then moved as a couple into a new home. Now they dont. All these factors have caused a significant reduction in the average number of people per household.

This has been true worldwide for at least a hundred years

Its called the occupancy rate which means the number of people living in a house. The uk average is 2.35 which is the highest (ie we live more to a house) than France Germany Spain or Ireland.

The occupancy rate shoild naturally fall as people wish to live less to a home. It appears in a free market this figure will tend to a number below 2.0 as is the case in Germany


So you are right even with no immigration and a static population we would need to build to allow the occupancy rate to fall to meet the continual demographic change

Building_Surveyor

No space ??? England has built on only 2.27% of land available. 98% is classed as natural land

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096

If we upped that to 5% the housing shortages would be no more.

hazyjo

How many properties are there in each? Does anyone know? Maybe (suggesting, no knowledge!) France has far fewer.

Maybe we did most of our building years ago... who's to say France aren't now playing 'catch-up'?

Without all these facts and figures, surely it's meaningless who's building what/how many this year, next year, or in future years?

Maybe the immigrants here are living together more so there's not so much demand?

Maybe people are choosing to extend their current houses/convert lofts than move?

Maybe France have only just taken the 'most houses built in a year' title. Has that always been the case? Is it just over the last few years?

As I say, all suggestions - but surely all relevant as to why we currently build less than France.

Why not compare against other countries - you may find we build three times as many as comparably sized countries.

Jx