First Direct removing online cancellation of Direct Debits from T&Cs 1 Jan 2014

fuzzything

Archi_Bald wrote: »

what is misleading about the thread title? Are you saying the T&C update that has been sent out is wrong and they don't mean what they say in their T&Cs?

I personally read what they said as that clause 16.3 is no longer going to apply to online banking. But the clause refers to the cutoff being as late as 4:30 pm the day before the payment is taken. This is what they are saying will be taken away from online banking.

The new Terms and conditions then do not make reference to the ability to cancel direct debits online. Which is pretty daft and misleading, particularly when they are compared to the current terms. But not including it in the T&Cs is not the same as not allowing it to be done at all.

They now say it is not being removed altogether, but it is in one way more limited then telephone banking. Assuming this is true it's no big deal... Or is it?

rb10

fuzzything wrote: »

I personally read what they said as that clause 16.3 is no longer going to apply to online banking. But the clause refers to the cutoff being as late as 4:30 pm the day before the payment is taken. This is what they are saying will be taken away from online banking.

That may be what was intended, but it's not what they say ... "you can only do so using our Telephone Banking Service or HSBC Express Bank machine" is very clearly worded, leaving no room for interpretation.

Of course, it's entirely possible that they made a mistake in their T&Cs. Or that the person replying on the website made a mistake.

fuzzything

rb10 wrote: »

That may be what was intended, but it's not what they say ... "you can only do so using our Telephone Banking Service or HSBC Express Bank machine" is very clearly worded, leaving no room for interpretation.

Of course, it's entirely possible that they made a mistake in their T&Cs.

Good point. Of course that is a quote from the 'Notice explaining the changes' and not directly from the 1 Jan 2014 Terms and Conditions.

The new T&Cs are up on their website, under legals, and the new clause reads:
16.3
You can withdraw your agreement for direct debit payments to be made at any time by telling us via Telephone Banking,
or HSBC Express Bank machine before 4.30pm one business weekday before that payment is due to be made by us. You should also tell the recipient that you have cancelled the direct debit instruction.

Note they do not say 'only' these methods on the actual new T&Cs. If they did then I would agreement that this contradicts what they have said on their First Direct labs comment.

I think they slipped up not including a clause on online banking. And the 'notice explaining the changes' does not score a 10/10 for explanations. But if they are not removing the facility - and the new T&Cs are silent on that point - and instead limiting it in this one way then I would say its a small issue. YMMV

Archi_Bald

fuzzything wrote: »

You can withdraw your agreement for direct debit payments to be made at any time by telling us via Telephone Banking, or HSBC Express Bank machine before 4.30pm one business weekday before that payment is due to be made by us.

If it's also possible to do it online, why wouldn't they say so?

roxy28

I don't know if i am coming or going reading this thread.

innovate

roxy28 wrote: »

I don't know if i am coming or going reading this thread.

Could you be working at First Direct then?

roxy28

innovate wrote: »

Could you be working at First Direct then?

I may apply if thats the criteria.

typistretired

I've not received a letter about the change to terms and conditions but looking online Internet Banking has definitely been removed from condition 16.3 from 1st January 2014

First_Direct_company_representative

Apologies for the confusion.

We are happy to confirm that we are not planning to remove the functionality to cancel Direct Debits via internet banking.

When a Direct Debit instruction is cancelled via internet banking within one working day of the payment instruction being due, we are unable to stop that payment. We changed the terms and conditions to ensure customers were able to stop payments in a timely manner.

Internet Banking can still be used to cancel Direct Debits, as long as customer are aware of the limitations of this route.

Archi_Bald

First_Direct_company_representative wrote: »

Apologies for the confusion.
We are happy to confirm that we are not planning to remove the functionality to cancel Direct Debits via internet banking. .........

Internet Banking can still be used to cancel Direct Debits, as long as customer are aware of the limitations of this route.

That's very good to know but unfortunately that it is not what your T&Cs are saying, and confusion therefore still reigns.

The words "Internet Banking" have been deleted from clause 16.3, and I don't think a post on an Internet forum would be seen as a correction of the T&Cs.

Current: http://www2.firstdirect.com/content_static/pdf/account_terms_0913.pdf

New from January 2014:
http://www2.firstdirect.com/content_static/pdf/account_terms_0114.pdf