First Direct removing online cancellation of Direct Debits from T&Cs 1 Jan 2014

Archi_Bald

roxy28 wrote: »

I always thought if you tell the people you were paying and your bank that you have cancelled, that was enough and you are in control, not good to hear what Barclays say.

Barclays? This thread is about FD. But any bank has the DD guarantee. So if any unauthorised debit happens against a DD on your account, you can ask your money back. You are always in control of your DDs. Of course, this doesn't mean you can pretend you don't owe money when you do.

joncombe

Archi_Bald wrote: »

Barclays? This thread is about FD. But any bank has the DD guarantee. So if any unauthorised debit happens against a DD on your account, you can ask your money back.

Yes that's all very well - until (for example) you find you need money for a taxi home after a night out and because of an incorrect Direct Debit there is no money in your account and you can't get hold of anyone from the bank until the next day. The point (of cancelling a Direct Debit) is avoiding it from happening in the first place rather than how it can be resolved if it does happen.

Of course, this doesn't mean you can pretend you don't owe money when you do.

Absoluetly - but it should be down to the organisation concerned to take action against you for non payment rather than just help themselves from your bank account.

Hominu

baby_frogmella wrote: »

Because for the millionth time FD are primarily telephone based, their online system (which isn't the best i'll agree) isn't the way they prefer their customers to do their banking

So whats next - "We've removed the facility for you to make payments online as we prefer our customer to bank using the telephone, you can still however check your balance online and by using our mobile app".

It just wouldn't work. They would be receiving so many calls that you'd be waiting in a queue for the next available operator, then there customer service would suffer because you couldn't speak to someone quickly. They'd then have to spend millions on new call centres.

FD created Internet Banking in 1997 when it had over 500,000 customers to reduce the amount of people calling its customer support numbers and thus save costs. I remember it being shipped to people on a CD which had to be installed and run.

What they now say they are going to be doing is completely backwards to all this. No bank wants you to call them - they'd prefer you to apply for everything online and then call you up at random times during the day and offer you other products.

barak

joncombe wrote: »

I have to question the point of cancelling a Direct Debit anyway..... cancelling has little effect - the organisation can simply re-instate the Direct Debit and the banks appear to allow it back on your account, without your agreement and without making any checks. Barclays told me if you've previously done business with an organisation and they get a new Direct Debit request from them then they simply allow it through......

They may allow it initially, but if you have had a DD reinstated without your further instruction after cancelling it, you should persist in having it reversed under the DD guarantee.....although it's beginning to sound as if you owed the payee something anyway, in which case I have less sympathy.....

joncombe

barak wrote: »

.....although it's beginning to sound as if you owed the payee something anyway, in which case I have less sympathy.....

Nope. It was Npower. I switched away from them and they issued a final bill but there were errors with it and it appeared to show I had been re-billed for a previous billing period (already paid), despite the previous bill not having been refunded. Despite this, they closed the account and issued me a cheque for the (credit) balance. In the mean time they agreed the bill was wrong (but insisted the balance was still correct), but eventually agreed to issue a corrrected bill. This was done, but the "corrected" bill was also wrong and charged me under the wrong tariff and hence came up in debit. I immediatly queried it and was told they would look into it and they confirmed they had put a "stop" on my account to stop payment being taken. In the mean time I had cancelled the direct debit - but found they re-instated it and took the money of this disputed bill from my account (despite the bill being wrong and despite assurances they wouldn't). So not, not really a case of trying to avoid paying money owed, more trying to stop them (unsuccessfully) taking money that was not owed.

pqrdef

joncombe wrote: »

Barclays told me if you've previously done business with an organisation and they get a new Direct Debit request from them then they simply allow it through.

Or even if you haven't previously done business with them. The bank is trying to pull some wool over your eyes with that - trying to make the system seem more reasonable. What they mean is, they take no responsibility for doing any checks or alerts ever.

Note that the banks will always hold you fully responsible for knowing what money's coming out of your account (as the cheerleaders will remind you), even though they can set up a DD that you know nothing about and take money on it only hours later having done nothing to alert you to it. If it's a mistake, they'll put the payment back, but they won't accept any liability for any consequential losses.

joncombe wrote: »

because they can simply go back on your account without your permissions.

Not really, but the merchant will have small print that allows it, without saying so explicitly. It'll say "the contract remains in force until cancelled in triplicate by registered post to our registered office, signed in blood" and elsewhere "we can collect any money owing by any payment method you have previously used".

Archi_Bald

pqrdef wrote: »

....the merchant will have small print that allows it, without saying so explicitly. It'll say "the contract remains in force until cancelled in triplicate by registered post to our registered office, signed in blood" and elsewhere "we can collect any money owing by any payment method you have previously used".

Can you provide proper evidence please on where in any smallprint it says that a company can set up a DD on your account without your authorisation.

Vortigern

TheEffect wrote: »

First Direct just replied to a comment on their site stating they are not removing this feature.

I suspect that the "comment on their site" is trumped by the T&Cs and I expect that the facility WILL be withdrawn, unless they send out further revised terms.

FWIW I think it's a stupid idea and it will will give more ammunition to those who whinge about fd's internet banking. The fact that a cancellation can be reversed is immaterial - if I cancel at a machine in a branch, surely that can be reversed just as easily.

Perhaps we should all complain directly to fd about this proposed change.

roxy28

Archi_Bald wrote: »

Barclays? This thread is about FD. But any bank has the DD guarantee. So if any unauthorised debit happens against a DD on your account, you can ask your money back. You are always in control of your DDs. Of course, this doesn't mean you can pretend you don't owe money when you do.

It was just a reply to the poster who used the barclays name.

JohalaReewi

baby_frogmella wrote: »

If the OP only has to cancel his DD's a few times a year its hardly a big deal to call FD and do it over the phone since they answer the phone instantly.

There is a problem with FD if you don't use the telephone banking and suddenly have to.

When asked for parts of your password, it is not your internet banking password, but another one you can't remember...

"No problem" says FD, "we will just put you through to security clearance for some extra checks, do you have your debit card with you?".
"No I don't at the moment but when I do, I will call you back.".
"OK. By the way, because you have failed the security checks, your account is now blocked. Is there anything else I can help you with today?".