Rant, and Question for anyone "In the know" so to speak about Banks and the Law.

sb55mv

Hi All.

I'm new to the MSE.com, but wanted to Rant about something my Bank seems to think is OK to do, and ask anyone in here if they feel it's going against the customers interests or even breaking any law, either technically or even under the data protection act etc.

Any feedback would be most welcome.

First, some basic background info for you. I bank with NW, and have done for some 25 years, I have a current account with a £2000 overdraft facility which I have only used for a couple of occasions, and even then only for a very short period. I don't have or never really had the need for a credit card, I get by just fine with a Debit card and Cash.

So, the groundwork is laid, now, sit back and get comfortable, I'm going to tell you a story.

Last year I received a reminder letter some 4 weeks before the end of my Green flag breakdown service membership was about to expire, and they said no need to do anything now Mr blogs, as we will just take the £36 out of your account on the date detailed.

I called in to NW and asked how this could be OK to do, as I had not given anyone my permission to take any money, neither had I set up a direct debit or standing order with them! The lady told me that because I had called them on the phone, or completed the form on the internet and paid in full using my debit card, I had pretty much given them my permission to go ahead and take the money?

So, I asked her what would happen then if this time next year a purchase I make at Wilkinson's for £25 on something could be taken again this time next year? to this she laughed and said NO, that would be Fraud.

I looked at her in silence for a few seconds, and I think she could tell from my face what was coming next. Well, in that case then how come this is not fraud of theft as well? because I haven't given them my permission.

I could tell I was not going to get anywhere, so I left chuntering under my breath in frustration.

So, Imagine my surprise on Friday at returning home from work at finding a letter from Green flag again, I knew the renewal was coming up soon, but when I spoke to them over the phone last year I made two specific points clear. 1) I wanted their assurance that I was not going to be automatically renewed this year, and 2) That I would not be added to any databases of any kind.

Well, the letter I opened on Friday was to inform me that they had taken out of my account £38, as I had selected Automatic Renewal last year when I applied for the break down cover over the internet, which I didn't do of course, I spoke to a human being that took some info off me and did the rest.

Now what makes this worse is that I have had a New debit card issued twice since then because of the wear and tear, so the numbers have changed twice. According to a lovely young woman "Emma" at GF, she told me that they tried to take the money on the renewal date, but were unable to do so because the card number was non existent, so they contacted NatWest, who gave them my New card number details so they could take the money.

To say I am furious is an understatement. The air in the kitchen was positively blue, and a huge dark cloud developed over my house with lightening for a few hours until I calmed down.

Can anyone on help with this, as I am unsure if this is perfectly fine to do.

Many thanks.

PS a very strongly worded letter is in the works as soon as I find out who the top man is and how to get hold of him at Green Flag. As far as I am concerned they stole my money because I did not give them my permission to take it. I also did not receive any letter 4 weeks before like I did last year telling me of their intention to take the money again, and, I am also annoyed at being lied to by their rep who said I was not put on "Auto renewal"

rb10

Natwest haven't done anything wrong. When you sign up to a Continuous Payment Authority (which Natwest, in the best faith, believed you had), you are giving the retailer permission to debit your account, even when your card number changes.

It's commonly used for insurances and magazine subscriptions.

If you did not agree with Green Flag to set up a CPA, then your complaint lies with them. Don't bother trying to go after Natwest, they are in the clear here.

Humphrey10

sb55mv wrote: »

Hi All.

I'm new to the MSE.com, but wanted to Rant about something my Bank seems to think is OK to do, and ask anyone in here if they feel it's going against the customers interests or even breaking any law, either technically or even under the data protection act etc.

Any feedback would be most welcome.

First, some basic background info for you. I bank with NW, and have done for some 25 years, I have a current account with a £2000 overdraft facility which I have only used for a couple of occasions, and even then only for a very short period. I don't have or never really had the need for a credit card, I get by just fine with a Debit card and Cash.

So, the groundwork is laid, now, sit back and get comfortable, I'm going to tell you a story.

Last year I received a reminder letter some 4 weeks before the end of my Green flag breakdown service membership was about to expire, and they said no need to do anything now Mr blogs, as we will just take the £36 out of your account on the date detailed.

I called in to NW and asked how this could be OK to do, as I had not given anyone my permission to take any money, neither had I set up a direct debit or standing order with them! The lady told me that because I had called them on the phone, or completed the form on the internet and paid in full using my debit card, I had pretty much given them my permission to go ahead and take the money?

So, I asked her what would happen then if this time next year a purchase I make at Wilkinson's for £25 on something could be taken again this time next year? to this she laughed and said NO, that would be Fraud.

I looked at her in silence for a few seconds, and I think she could tell from my face what was coming next. Well, in that case then how come this is not fraud of theft as well? because I haven't given them my permission.

I could tell I was not going to get anywhere, so I left chuntering under my breath in frustration.

So, Imagine my surprise on Friday at returning home from work at finding a letter from Green flag again, I knew the renewal was coming up soon, but when I spoke to them over the phone last year I made two specific points clear. 1) I wanted their assurance that I was not going to be automatically renewed this year, and 2) That I would not be added to any databases of any kind.

Well, the letter I opened on Friday was to inform me that they had taken out of my account £38, as I had selected Automatic Renewal last year when I applied for the break down cover over the internet, which I didn't do of course, I spoke to a human being that took some info off me and did the rest.

Now what makes this worse is that I have had a New debit card issued twice since then because of the wear and tear, so the numbers have changed twice. According to a lovely young woman "Emma" at GF, she told me that they tried to take the money on the renewal date, but were unable to do so because the card number was non existent, so they contacted NatWest, who gave them my New card number details so they could take the money.

To say I am furious is an understatement. The air in the kitchen was positively blue, and a huge dark cloud developed over my house with lightening for a few hours until I calmed down.

Can anyone on help with this, as I am unsure if this is perfectly fine to do.

Many thanks.

PS a very strongly worded letter is in the works as soon as I find out who the top man is and how to get hold of him at Green Flag. As far as I am concerned they stole my money because I did not give them my permission to take it. I also did not receive any letter 4 weeks before like I did last year telling me of their intention to take the money again, and, I am also annoyed at being lied to by their rep who said I was not put on "Auto renewal"

Just ring up Green Flag (why didn't you cancel after the problems last year?) and explain what has happened, and they'll probably refund your money.

sb55mv

"Just ring up Green Flag (why didn't you cancel after the problems last year?) and explain what has happened, and they'll probably refund your money."

Humphrey

I did not think I needed to call to cancel something I had not signed up to repeat for, and, the fact that I had told them I did NOT want to be on a auto-renewal made this clearer for me too, and also the fact that I had not received any letter 4 weeks prior to it's end made me think they were not doing it again this year.

sb55mv

rb10

"When you sign up to a Continuous Payment Authority"

But that's just it, I did not sign up for any continuous payment authority, or direct debit, or standing order.

Why is it that this kind of thing is treated as such, but a purchase made to buy something else in a shop is not? IE if the store charges me again next year then it's fraud?

mije1983

sb55mv wrote: »

Why is it that this kind of thing is treated as such, but a purchase made to buy something else in a shop is not? IE if the store charges me again next year then it's fraud?

Probably because the shop won't provide you with the goods again, whereas things like breakdown cover are provided again.

Not that I agree with Green Flag, but after the problems you had last year, renewal reminder or not, I would have been on the phone to them a day or 2 before expiry to tell them I wanted to cancel. A 2 minute phone call would have removed the problems you have now.

DevilsAdvocate1

If I were you I would ring them up quick, because if its more than 14 days they will also charge you an admin fee for cancelling.

I had this exact problem with Green Flag. I had breakdown cover for a specific car. Six months after I took out the policy I sold the car. I always click any box to decline automatic renewal.

Anyway, I got a credit card bill one Feb and it was much bigger than expected. On looking at it, I found Green Flag had charged me for renewal. I hadn;'t received anything through the post.

I rang Green Flag straight way and was told that they did this to provide me with peace of mind as I had the benefit of continuous cover. If I still wanted to cancel I would have to pay an admin fee, think this was around £60. I asked to speak to a manager and then asked why I would want a policy for a car I don't own anymore. A policy I could never use as it was covering a particular car and not a person. Therefore, I could never use this policy.

They eventually agreed to refund the full amount if I could prove that I didn't own the car anymore. Although this was really easy to do, I shouldn't have had to do it.

I will not take out a policy with them again.

keyser666

Got half way down your post OP and thought CPA and T&C's - be right back

keyser666

http://www.greenflag.com/breakdown-cover/faq.html

You agree to accept that the policy will be automatically renewed each year on the payment details you provided upon purchasing, unless you ask us to cancel it for you.

sb55mv

I kind of agree with you Keyser666, however, if I told them explicitly not to auto renew, and they confirmed it was set to OFF, and I did not receive a letter 4 weeks beforehand like last year, then I assumed it was not going to auto renew.

Obviously I cannot take that for granted now.

Just how many times is someone meant to say NO though to stop them taking the money?

keyser666

Totally agree, thing is with this and insurance they take the line...

"We do it in your best interests because what if you forgot or it lapsed and your house was burgled or car nicked or you broke down in Scotland when you live in London, Luckily you are/would be covered"