Tenant is now letting house get dirty

dancingfairy

I'm surprised by some of the comments you have received on here to be honest
Anyway, a few thoughts. You could consider letting your tenants know your plans in advance (if you are reasonably confident that you will definitely want to sell in Spring). You don't have to serve the S21 now but can just let them know gently your intentions.
Also with regards to selling, what really annoys me (And will probably set off another round off vitriol on here) is when landlords try and sell with a tenant in situ. Some landlords appreciate it is the tenants house whilst they are in contract but others take the mickey with regards to viewings, surveys, expecting tenants to clean up for photos etc etc.
Ideally you want to serve the S21 and they leave on time and leave the place clean an tidy.
You can try and sell the place with the tenants in situ but then you might want to offer signigificant rent reductions to cope with the inconvenience and you will have to accept that photos/viewings etc will have to be done around the tenant and that you will have no say over how clean/tidy the place is. I think it is generally fairer/easier all round if you evict the tenants cleanly and then remarket but obviously it depends on how amenable the tenants are and their onward plans as well.
Best of Luck
df
P.S If you need any help serving the S21 (making sure the agent serves it correctly then come back here and ask and I'm sure someone will point you in the right direction).

jules888

Homeagain wrote: »

No it's not. It may be their home but certainly not their house.

Hear!Hear!

theartfullodger

Interesting thread with a range of views...

My post offering the view

bjb: In Britain we have a tradition of using paragraphs and spacing to assist the reader - you could think about what it is like to try & read your stream of unconciousness (lit. all.)

In Britain we have a tradition and set of values based on welcoming strangers: Why, even the ruddy English were initially welcomed before they took over..

In Britain the tenant has his home, his property (yes, tenant's property not landlord's) for him to enjoy without the unnecessary meddling & prying of the landlord whom he is paying...

Just a couple of thoughts....

Cheers!

- got 20 "thanks", a record for me I think.... and regarding

It may be their home but certainly not their house

It is the tenant's home & property - see ..
http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2010/08/31/urban-myth-when-a-landlord-lets-a-property-its-still-his/

Urban Myth – when a landlord lets a property, its still his

Cheers!

Artful (a wicked landlord btw...)

bjbyorkshire

Artful, I gave you a thanks too. The link you posted to the Landlordlaw.blog was made very interesting reading. I think if I had read it a year ago then maybe it would have freaked me out and renting wouldn't have happened.

I have only visited the property 3 times in 11 months. The first time towards the end of the fixed term period when tenant asked if we could look at 3 small problems in the house. We said yes certainly and arranged a time to visit. Satisfactorily agreed what could be done on all counts. I noticed kitchen/lounge was in good shape at that point. Tenant living alone, working long hours and presumably not cooking for himself. He married at this stage and wife came to live there. He rang me in a bit of a strop to say agents were insisting that she had a credit check done as she was going to be a joint tenant. He said that she was not willing to do this, she knows about this and it wouldn't stand up in court??? I said that I was ok with her moving in as his wife as he was paying the rent and was the tenant but that he should sort it up with the agents. Agents told me that it would mean my 3 months rent guarantee, which they provided free of charge when I signed with them, would be invalidated if for instance he left her in the house (split relationship) and she stopped paying the rent. He said if this was going to happen at a cost of £95 that they thought it was exorbitant charging and they would have to think about moving out and finding somewhere else. I asked would it help to make wife feel less annoyed if I offered to share the £95 cost with them. He said that it wasn't that so much as the principle of exorbitant charging by agents that they were annoyed about. I haven't heard anything regarding this from either tenant or agent so I actually thought that I wouldn't stir up the hornets nest by asking about it again, but I will be asking the LA this week what did happened on that score.

2nd visit was last Wednesday when all electric sockets were out of action and new freezer full of meat was in danger of defrosting. I managed to get a plumber/electrician we know to come take a look after we had tried to re-set the RCD and it wouldn't stay set. Tenants had both had to go to work so he was totally happy for us to go in and sort it asap.

3rd visit was last Friday to let the gas certificate chap in. With tenants full agreement as he might not be able to come home at the appointed time but actually he was there before us so, apart from stepping into the sitting room just to say hi when he asked did we want a cup of tea or anything. I said thanks but no thanks, we had brought some gardening tools down with us to cut the high bushes back so that they didn't block his and next doors sky reception. He said oh good, I don't have any gardening tools. We got on with the work, gas man came and did his stuff. Hubby replaced battery in outside door bell and tenant cane to check that it was working and asked where the bell in the house was as we said possible after 12 months use that may need a new battery too. We parted with smiles all round and we said that if anything else cropped up to let us know.

I know what you are saying about quiet enjoyment and as far as sticking my nose in is concerned it was only the fact of going in to see what the plumber had found to be the cause of the electrical fault, a new pump needed on boiler as it was dripping water onto electrics and shorting the circuit (DANGEROUS). It was only then that I got an eyeball in the kitchen and my heart and stomach sank to my boots. I think I was very restrained in not mentioning my horror to him on Friday but after all the posts on here I said nothing.

Question.....

What exactly are the EA six monthly inspections supposed to show?

She reported with photos and a written report that everything was being well looked after at the end of the first inspection. If she finds that the kitchen is not as well looked after as it was would she then write this down and suggest any action or is that not what she can do? Is she purely looking for major health and safety issues (large drum of cooking oil in middle of floor for example or fire coals missing when they should be in there or just what exactly is the purpose of an inspection please?

Thanks

theartfullodger

Your agent does not appear to be doing what they are charging you for. Sack the agent, do it yourself.

That way you have EXACTLY the same legal responsibilities but you are in charge, you control things, you save £££..

There are good agents: I have one for one of my houses... but then we go out for lunch once a year & sometimes I pay...

Sometimes I make money each year on each house: Sometimes not. Usually I get good tenants, sometimes not. If you can't cope with the emotional and financial pressures of the tenant (or agent...) from hell who doesn;t pay you for (say) 7 months then find another business...

Good luck!

Cheers!

Fraise

bjbyorkshire wrote: »

I have a house which is let through LA. I have met my tenant once and spoken to him a couple of times on the phone when he needed some work done, otherwise I have left him well alone. On Wednesday morning at 8am I got a call from my tenant on his way to work saying that all the plug sockets in the house were inactive and his new freezer which was full of meat would be at risk if we didn't get the issue fixed fairly quickly. I managed with great difficulty to get someone to come and look to see what the problem was. He came within an hour of my call which is pretty darned good for plumbers/electricians. I went to the property at 9:30am with the permission of my tenant who had gone to work. I turned out that the boiler/heating had come on at 7am, the first time the heating was put on this year, and the pump in the boiler had sprung a leak which had caused the master RCD switch to trip out each time we tried to re set it. Plumber fitted a new pump within 2 hours (I am still waiting for his bill!!) I rang my tenant at work to say all was fixed and he was most grateful for such a speedy outcome. BUT.... Big problem now. I was quite horrified at the state of the house when we went in. Most of the house was just plain untidy. Not a problem there but the kitchen was very smelly (curry smells as they are ethnic professional tenants who eat that type of food). But the grease was very evident on all the kitchen cupboard doors, the kitchen windows and door between kitchen and sitting room were covered in a greasy film. I noticed a griddle on a stand of the type you would use out in the garden was in the kitchen/diner and it is obvious that they are using that as well as the cooker for their cooking. I was so shocked as when the LA did a six month inspection with photos everything was fine but the tenant has since married and his wife has moved in with him and presumably they are cooking at home more than he did as a single bloke. I have tried to contact the LA today to see why they haven't done a second six monthly check. The house has been let to same tenant for almost 12 months. I was in blissful ignorance as to the deterioration in the place since the last check by the agents on 2nd March. I really want the LA to give the tenant his notice (2 months now) and for us to try to sell the house rather than go through all the hassle of finding new tenants. I will keep you informed of progress on this one after the LA gets back to me. I have to go to the house again on Friday afternoon for the gas safety check to be done so am not sure whether to say something to the tenant about the greasy kitchen or to leave it to the agents as I am paying a management fee every month for them to manage it for me. Any advice would be welcome as to what my best course of action should be. This is my first experience of being a landlord and it was all looking good up until this week. I feel that six monthly checks may not be quite often enough as a lot of muck can be generated in that time.
Thanks

I haven't been able to go through all this thread, so excuse me if this has already been brought up but, I totally agree with you about how unpleasant strong spicy smells are.

I enjoy a good curry occasionally, but if they are cooked at home regularly the smell of the spices actually permeate the WALLS. I kid you not. I remember going to view a house that was completely empty, no furniture inside, and the kitchen had almost been gutted - there was just a kitchen sink. It had been empty for a long time, yet the strong smell of curry had actually seeped into the walls, maybe because bricks are porous? Whatever, the smell meant it would have needed to have all the plaster removed and redone again - the smell was that strong.

In case this offends anyone I don't mean it to. As I say, I love a good curry now and then, but the fact is cooking it at home regularly will make the house smell of curry.

I've also heard that cooking Chinese regularly at home can leave grease all over the kitchen - everywhere. Chinese fry almost everything, and the oil goes all over the cupboards, right up to the ceiling.....

This isn't being prejudiced, it's just stating a fact.

Fraise

Kynthia wrote: »

I think many were blunt to get the message accross that you were overreacting, but I recall only one poster bordering on abusive, throwing around stereotypes, assumptions, and seemed to have a chip on their shoulder about landlords.

The thing is you have no right to interfere in how your tenants live, look up 'quiet enjoyment' as it's not about noise. You have the right to inspect, and that is to check for damage and faults to the property, illegal or dangerous activity by the tenants as well as subletting, etc. It's not to comment on their housekeeping, the fact they haven't mowed the lawn, use the lounge as their bedroom or even keep coal in the bath! It's their home until the tenancy ends, which can only be done by them or a court (I've been there).

In many leases it states that the tenant must maintain the garden and mow the lawn. In fact, it's often a big requirement.

mlz1413

BJBYorkshire, I rented some 10 years ago and my landlord was as lovely as you, he was retired and therefore didn't mind waiting in for trades meaning I didn't have to waste holiday or take time off unpaid to be in for the yearly checks that needed doing.

Equally I lived in the house as my home and I kept it clean and the garden tidy, the LL didn't bat an eyelid at my dog being there because I lived in a clean home.

My LL's house was very precious to him too, he had been born there and his mum & dad had bought it when it was first build in the 1900's and both died there - his mum was 99 when she died - so parting with the house has never been an option to him.

Being helpful and being nosy are two different things but some on here will always criticize just because you walked into the house whilst the tenant was paying rent, others will be constructive as you have found.

Ultimately you have to do what is right by you. Talking to the tenant now about selling in the spring will probably mean they move out earlier. As you intend to sell when they do go you could give your required 2 months but let them know a week or so extra could be negotiated if necessary - but be aware that virtual nothing will be perfect or hassle free!

My old landlord was very picky over who rented his house and would allow it to stand empty rather than take someone he didn't want.

Re your last post regarding the wife maybe the Letting Agents actually got it right. The tenants refused to pay £95 quoting 'it won't stand up in court' personally I'd have let the LA tell them to go and let them get somewhere else than be told by my tenants how the LA & LL should conduct their business. But again that's my opinion, you clearly liked the tenant and wanted the best for him.

Going forward if you do keep the house maybe you should allow the LA to deal with everything? Clearly things have become harder to deal with as you are emotionally attached to the house and are trying to do your best by the tenant. In the future if the hedge grows so high that the TV reception stops then the tenant will work it out, if they want you to wait for a trade the LA should contact you meaning the tenant doesn't have your number to whinge to you about the LA's. And now you have had your first lot of tenants you are probably better placed to deal with renting as a business.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Prothet_of_Doom

Can I offer the tennants View ?

I was renting a room in someone's house, which included the sole use of a shower room. Because I was only there 4 nights a week, and I was working long hours, in 10 months I never bothered to dust or hoover, or clean the bathroom (TBH I hardly ever used the loo). Before I left I made sure it was spotless, and spent 3 hours on my hands and knees, making it perfect. I put the furniture back where I'd found it, and polished the bathroom until it shone. The live in Land Lord Seemed surprised. It was cleaner than the day I moved in, but then I wanted my deposit back.
The next place I rented, and I'd been there one week, and the live in landlord wants a word about 'the mess in my room' and how I'm being "discresptful" leaving dirty washing on the floor, and demanding that I move the furniture back to where it was, and points out the location of the vacumm cleaner to me, and telling me that I must use it weekly.
You can guess how long I stayed? I'm 46, I'm married with 2 kids, so I know the difference between, temporary mess, and permanent damage.

I know a guy who rents out a couple of houses to students, and with one, he's turning over £14K from 8 Students. He factors in spending 3 days 'Deep' cleaning. They usually make an attempt in order to get the deposit back, but it's not always perfect to his standard. He also Repaints at least 1/5 of the house each year as "They scuff things" .

CharllieSays

I just wanted to point out that my partner and I rent a flat and regularly eat stir fry meals. I'm a fairly tidy cook, but if my boyfriend takes over then the kitchen does appear to grow an extra skin! If I have to work lates then neither of us have time during the week to clean (up at 5am, back at 7:30pm, and I have degree work to fit in too) and everything gets left to the weekend. It is fairly simple to remedy though (a bit of elbow grease and it all scrubs clean), and I really wouldn't worry about long term damage as long as the tenants do clean the place every now and then.

When they leave I would expect them to make an extra effort to thoroughly tidy/clean before handing back the keys (as I have always done when moving on). If they do leave the flat in an excessively dirty/damaged state when handing back the keys, then take money from the deposit in order to have a cleaner come in or pay for damage.