County Court Claim Form received : Claimant is SIP

SpaceCowboy55

spacey2012 wrote: »

Your defence has to be personalised, so nobody can really write your exact defence, it needs a plan of attack that fits how the proceedings are conducted and what you are to present, but my opinion is the BPA handbook is a not going to do you much good, you are going to law court, not a meeting of a BPA disciplinary panel.
Judges are there to use the law and administer the law.

Fit yours around the plan above and be prepared to raise the points in a polite, softly spoken voice and question the representative from the other side when they have made the case to establish facts.
The Penalty issue is one they rarely get around if you have the follow up point about running costs presented as a loss.
MCOL will have instructions on how to file and when with what, it is best to go in very hard with all the points above well covered.
A good strong defence may make them throw the towel as they are hoping for a default case.
I have beaten several parking companies using the above, most won't even try me now, one parking company office worker passing themselves off was very nearly jailed for not having right of audience in Plymouth in 2011, so always raise this first then move onward with contracts and penalties, finish on pre-court protocols or the lack of as a demonstration of the lack of respect for the court, this also leaves it a bit late for them to apologise having just sat and laid it down.

Thank you again : One question : How much of the above do I have to do in the MCOL defence statement ( that I intend to send in via email as there is possibility to attache files ) vs if I end up in a court room ? ( or is it one and the same thing ?).

spacey2012

Have you logged in and selected to defend giving you 28 days from date of service.
Once you select this, it will be sent back to the claimant to decide if they want to move forward to a hearing, which will be at the nearest county court to you.

On timing they are two schools of thought, one is leave it late giving them no time to enter further evidence based on your defence and the other is to hit them up big and hopefully when faced with well constructed defence containing points they know they can not answer and they know you are challenging right of audience, do they risk a solicitor or pay a barrister to be safe, they can only claim £50 and have to send someone up to your local court, will they decide it is not worth the risk of losing and paying legal costs, when even if they win, they can not possibly break even.
As they have gone in waving POFA, they are very limited to what they can claim, they certainly wont break even if they win.
They may be fishing for defaults, hence why I favour the in early and in very hard with full defence, although I have done both schools before.

They are after easy defaults to boast on the website, if you win, more people will find out they are full of it, just as two did last week.

SpaceCowboy55

spacey2012 wrote: »

Have you logged in and selected to defend giving you 28 days from date of service.
Once you select this, it will be sent back to the claimant to decide if they want to move forward to a hearing, which will be at the nearest county court to you.

On timing they are two schools of thought, one is leave it late giving them no time to enter further evidence based on your defence and the other is to hit them up big and hopefully when faced with well constructed defence containing points they know they can not answer and they know you are challenging right of audience, do they risk a solicitor or pay a barrister to be safe, they can only claim £50 and have to send someone up to your local court, will they decide it is not worth the risk of losing and paying legal costs, when even if they win, they can not possibly break even.
As they have gone in waving POFA, they are very limited to what they can claim, they certainly wont break even if they win.
They may be fishing for defaults, hence why I favour the in early and in very hard with full defence, although I have done both schools before.

They are after easy defaults to boast on the website, if you win, more people will find out they are full of it, just as two did last week.

Yes I did the AOS and have until 23rd October to respond . I'm not sure what you mean waving POFA : they did give me a POPLA code and more fool me I didn't use it as I got confused by varying advice. My wish is to get it sent in latest next Monday ( 21st ) but preferably sooner. SIP are in Manchester as am I so it will be local for both of us.

Stroma

It's admirable to get multiple points of view on this, but I would take on the advice of spacey on this as he's had the experience of defending claims. Your thread on CAG is the one that got you into this mess with the ignore advice, even back in May we were advising to use Popla.

So make a decision on who's advice to follow on this, breaches of the bpa cop can be used in a limited fashion, but this is a court of law, so arguments in law should be used to back up any points raised.

I'm not having a go at cag but some of the users there are causing court cases, and the claims of easily batting into touch claims is not based on fact IMO, the small claims is a lottery, you only have a 50% chance of winning even with the best defence, it's down to the judge on the day.

SpaceCowboy55

Stroma wrote: »

It's admirable to get multiple points of view on this, but I would take on the advice of spacey on this as he's had the experience of defending claims. Your thread on CAG is the one that got you into this mess with the ignore advice, even back in May we were advising to use Popla.

So make a decision on who's advice to follow on this, breaches of the bpa cop can be used in a limited fashion, but this is a court of law, so arguments in law should be used to back up any points raised.

I'm not having a go at cag but some of the users there are causing court cases, and the claims of easily batting into touch claims is not based on fact IMO, the small claims is a lottery, you only have a 50% chance of winning even with the best defence, it's down to the judge on the day.

The problem I've got is that I am not an expert on this and what I have to do is to work out who I think is right or what suggested route I am happy with : when there is conflicting information it's not easy. It also takes a lot of time to read everything and areas such as "rights of audience " are not easy to comprehend and court transcripts are complex documents. I wish the person who had parked the car in the car park had paid the £1 for 8 minutes parking : it would have been a lot easier than this : the £50 demanded for not doing so at first seemed outrageous but when I think of the hours I've spent so far ...

Coupon-mad

Some other posters on pepipoo are not convinced about the "rights of audience " argument and I for one have never seen a PPC small claim overturned because of that argument. Have to say I have not dealt with defences personally but collate a lot of information and read everything, every day on here and on pepipoo so I can speak based on what I have read over the years.

SpaceCowboy55

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Some other posters on pepipoo are not convinced about the "rights of audience " argument and I for one have never seen a PPC small claim overturned because of that argument. Have to say I have not dealt with defences personally but collate a lot of information and read everything, every day on here and on pepipoo so I can speak based on what I have read over the years.

So what are the arguments that are winning in PPC small claims court currently please? I am coming to the conclusion I will cover a lot of areas in the defence but it will be stronger if the points made are in order of most likely to succeed.
As a complete layman I am confused as to why failure of the PPC to comply with POFA ( the law which applies to this situation ) isn't sufficient reason for the court action to be squashed / rejected : PCN dated 09/02 , NTO dated 10/05 . Tonight's job is to take everything I have and get my defence re-worked , so any other input , particular support or otherwise of other input on this thread welcome

nigelbb

SpaceCowboy55 wrote: »

I am confused as to why failure of the PPC to comply with POFA ( the law which applies to this situation ) isn't sufficient reason for the court action to be squashed / rejected : PCN dated 09/02 , NTO dated 10/05 .

It is sufficient defence IF they are pursuing the keeper AND the keeper was not the driver AND can prove it.

Umkomaas

The main problem in determining 'winning arguments' is that so few of the cases have yet gone to court.

The only one where a win has been published (as far as I'm aware) is that against CEL a week or so ago. It's reported here on PePiPoo:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=83968

ParkingEye are reporting a number of cases they've won through court action. But none of these is clear as to whether there was a defence and appearance by the motorist or whether they are default judgments.

Many people are settling before getting to court (either paying the full amount or negotiating a settlement figure). In reality, it is only PE who are pushing hard on the court front.

The main defence points to work on won't be much different to those of a POPLA appeal, but you will probably have to beef them up a bit more as it's unlikely a judge will have as much knowledge about PoFA or even the GPEOL issue set in a Private Parking context - and you will need to be able to present them verbally to the judge. Please note - I'm no authority on putting together court defences (I'm rather relaying that which I've learned from reading here and on PePiPoo) - there are others far more knowledgeable than me, and hopefully they will chip in too.

SpaceCowboy55

nigelbb wrote: »

It is sufficient defence IF they are pursuing the keeper AND the keeper was not the driver AND can prove it.

They are chasing the keeper ( me ) ; I was not the driver. I was waiting to see if the photo evidence that SIP have would prove it ... There is someone who can confirm I was at home at the time and I am sure the driver will confirm who they were : but I do not want to name the person if all that happens is that they are then pursued as I am sure it will all go wrong. If there is a way of this being stopped now with me then I would rather do it. Any advice you can give welcome .