DVLA - unable to SORN taking me to court!

forgotmyname

Ignoring the tax issue. Doesnt matter either way in your case.

The 1st letter was just a feeler, To see of your still at that address and own the vehicle. Its possible that you moved abroad and sold the car or took it with you. No point sending threats in that case.

The 1st letter was only sent because their system flagged up as being uninsured and not SORNd.
The invite to SORN it was besides the point, In their eyes the crime had already been commited and you must pay up of else.

Their internal mail system has been proven to be below par sometimes. And they cannot blame you for losing your SORN application.

Jamie_Carter

SLITHER99 wrote: »

I still find it amazing that something to do with a poxy car could serve to completely destroy your credit record through no real offense of your own, other than not having the money to pay a fine for something which has been really rather poorly advertised.

I - as do many others - always believed that the DVLA was only ever concerned whether or not a tax disk was on your car or not.

Speaking of which, in order for this fine (or charge or penalty or whatever you want to call it) to stand, surely they would have to prove that the car was in use on the public road? If it was locked in a garage in several pieces, then surely their penalty is completely absurd?

Not doubting what any of you are saying, I just think this is totally stupid!

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand vehicles must be insured now, unless they have been SORN'd.

bigjl

TrickyWicky wrote: »

At the end of the day if you're claiming that you're sure you SORN'd the car by post, the DVLA have a duty to prove that you didn't.

When you post the paperwork, even if it gets lost, it is classed as having been delivered to the DVLA.

If you're sure you sent it then they either have to back down or prove you didn't - which they can't.

Linky:
http://www.volkszone.com/VZi/showthread.php?t=631542&highlight=dvla

I completely agree with your point.

However, when the DVLA lost my change of keeper form and i refused to pay the fine i was happy that i would be proved right in court, but the Magistrate was having none of it and basically i needed to appeal to higher court.

The bit that stung the most was the "victim sucharge".

Funnily enough a bloke i worked with at the time also sold a car around this time and they also never got his change of keeper form apparently.

Now it could be coincidence but in times of reducing budgets what would you do to a few thousand change of keeper forms if they would net you £50 each in fines.

Ever since we both gave the chajge of keeper forms to a local office, which are now starting to be closed down.

Wonder why?

My only advice is to appeal to a higher court.

Though you have to pay the fine before appealing, or that is what i was told.

bigjl

Jamie_Carter wrote: »

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand vehicles must be insured now, unless they have been SORN'd.

Absolutely correct.

Brought in to stop unscrupulous drivers hoping they don't get seen by an ANPR camera but more likely to catch out the honest driver that has a car related issue such as the OP.

Iceweasel

SLITHER99 wrote: »

I still find it amazing that something to do with a poxy car could serve to completely destroy your credit record through no real offense of your own, other than not having the money to pay a fine for something which has been really rather poorly advertised.

I - as do many others - always believed that the DVLA was only ever concerned whether or not a tax disk was on your car or not.

Speaking of which, in order for this fine (or charge or penalty or whatever you want to call it) to stand, surely they would have to prove that the car was in use on the public road? If it was locked in a garage in several pieces, then surely their penalty is completely absurd?

Not doubting what any of you are saying, I just think this is totally stupid!

I agree with you, but in the eyes of the law ignorance is no excuse.

You need to have continuous VED and Insurance or SORN - no alternatives - even if it can be proved to be in bits in a shed half-way up a mountain.

So loads of folks are going to get fined.

db148

You need to return the tax disc to make the SORN valid.(It states this in the legislation).

You can still Sorn a vehicle without sending the tax, however if you get the tax re-instated later on the SORN completely comes off the vehicle.

if you didn't SORN the vehicle while not having insurance on it for more than 28 days you are liable for a fine.

If it was sent by post and not recorded mail, there is no way to prove DVLA received the letter or not. That is an issue to take up with Royal Mail.

db148

bigjl wrote: »

I completely agree with your point.

However, when the DVLA lost my change of keeper form and i refused to pay the fine i was happy that i would be proved right in court, but the Magistrate was having none of it and basically i needed to appeal to higher court.

The bit that stung the most was the "victim sucharge".

Funnily enough a bloke i worked with at the time also sold a car around this time and they also never got his change of keeper form apparently.

Now it could be coincidence but in times of reducing budgets what would you do to a few thousand change of keeper forms if they would net you £50 each in fines.

Ever since we both gave the chajge of keeper forms to a local office, which are now starting to be closed down.

Wonder why?

My only advice is to appeal to a higher court.

Though you have to pay the fine before appealing, or that is what i was told.

I'm sorry but it states on the V5C document that if after 4 weeks you do not get confirmation through in the post, It is your responsibility to chase it up. If you left it over 4 weeks then that is your fault and you should have to pay the fine.

Iceweasel

SLITHER99 wrote: »

I still find it amazing that something to do with a poxy car could serve to completely destroy your credit record through no real offense of your own, other than not having the money to pay a fine for something which has been really rather poorly advertised.

I - as do many others - always believed that the DVLA was only ever concerned whether or not a tax disk was on your car or not.

Speaking of which, in order for this fine (or charge or penalty or whatever you want to call it) to stand, surely they would have to prove that the car was in use on the public road? If it was locked in a garage in several pieces, then surely their penalty is completely absurd?

Not doubting what any of you are saying, I just think this is totally stupid!

I don't see it as a DVLA fault - they are not to blame. It's the government who changed the law meaning that you have to have continuous VED or SORN the vehicle.

And continuous insurance too.

If either the Disc expires ,or the insurance expires (or you cancel it) then once again it's a SORN job.

In years gone by I used to have my Camper stored in my garage with expired VED and the insurance reduced to Fire & Theft only.

Come the springtime I used to go get a VED disc and re-instate my insurance to Fully Comp.

I can't do that now so my camper will have no insurance at all when I garage it over the winter.

My cousin who has a couple of classic Minis has tried in vain to get them insured whilst stored, but so far no luck.

We are not alone in this - the government has poked it's nose into the affairs of everyone who has a holiday camper or a classic car hobby.

We are all being treated as 'potential VED avoiders' - ie potential criminals.

TrickyWicky

db148 wrote: »

I'm sorry but it states on the V5C document that if after 4 weeks you do not get confirmation through in the post, It is your responsibility to chase it up. If you left it over 4 weeks then that is your fault and you should have to pay the fine.

No it is not your responsibility at all. As far as the DVLA are concerned they are trying to enforce a non-existant rule.

Once you have sent your documents to them, thats it, you have legally notified them. There is no legal requirement whatsoever for you to then contact them if you do not hear back from them. The DVLA will tell you that you must but there is nothing in law that says you must.

In law however if you've posted something to someone it is deemed as 'delivered' and thus the DVLA are on a looser.

Joe_Horner

TrickyWicky wrote: »

No it is not your responsibility at all. As far as the DVLA are concerned they are trying to enforce a non-existant rule.

Once you have sent your documents to them, thats it, you have legally notified them. There is no legal requirement whatsoever for you to then contact them if you do not hear back from them. The DVLA will tell you that you must but there is nothing in law that says you must.

In law however if you've posted something to someone it is deemed as 'delivered' and thus the DVLA are on a looser.

Glad you answered that old chestnut about te acknowledgement before I saw it. Seen it trotted out so many times over the years that I might not have been quite so polite to the new (apparently pro-DVLA) poster :P