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Currently on JSA want to move onto Working Tax Credits......
Comments
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MissMoneypenny wrote: »They won't be subject to the benefit cap as they are "working" - even though they aren't really and are just pretending to work 30 hours a week to claim WTC and avoid the work programmes;signing on; and the benefit cap.
Under Universal Credit, the parents in your example will have set hours each. Once on Universal Crerdit: one parent will have to earn at least 35 hours per week an NMW and the other parent will have to earn set hours at NMW too (set hours according to the age of the youngest child) to avoid the Universal Credit conditions.
If the 2 children in your example are teenagers, then under UC, the parents will be required to earn 70 hours per week at national minimum wage, between them (70 x £6.31 = £441.70 per week) to avoid UC conditions. Or they could base their UC claim on them earning £441.70 per week from self employment (even if they didn't) to avoid the UC condititons: which would reduce the amount of benefit they would be given from 'the one benefit payment' UC. They could still claim Child Benefit in full as it is not part of Universal Credit, but is part of the Benefit Cap for those that don't work.
It's all part of making parents do more to support their own children.
Firstly are you sure about the ben cap not applying if you are working? I think you are wrong. If they live in London and can get about £300wk housing benefit and over £200 chid and other benefits included in their UC, They still can not get more than £500 total.
Secondly is this right BOTH parents have to work 35hrswk? Even if they have small children? At the moment only one parent has to, the other is expected to look after young children? What are the set hrs for the youngest child if the child is under4 or 5 yrs old?
Thirdly if you are correct then it is looking like most of those who at the moment claim WTC will indeed be classed as unemployed and be under conditionality. I mean who can earn £400wk from self employment these days?0 -
Firstly are you sure about the ben cap not applying if you are working? I think you are wrong. If they live in London and can get about £300wk housing benefit and over £200 chid and other benefits included in their UC, They still can not get more than £500 total.
"From April 2013 a cap was introduced on the total amount of benefit to which working-age claimants can be entitled. This means that households
on out of work benefits will no longer receive more in benefit......."
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/245745/benefit-cap-factsheet_24.07.13.pdf
Many out of work parents(I think I read it was 8,000) suddenly managed to find work for their minimum hours for Working Tax Credits, so they didn't get affected by the benefit cap. Of course, when they go onto Universal Credit, those minimum hours to avoid UC conditions, will rise. It's all part of getting (some) parents' to do more to keep their own children.Secondly is this right BOTH parents have to work 35hrswk?
I did say that if the 2 children in your example were teenagers. It's not based on working so many hours (as WTC is now - which is why so many parents claim they work their minimum WTC hours when they don't earn much) it is based on earnings. If a claimant earns more than NMW per hour, then they can work less hours or earn their partners hours.
Of course, if they really are running a business then they will be putting in a lot more than their required hours for claiming benefits, as running your business is not an easy option (unless they are only doing it to avoid signing on and the work programmes, while still claiming benefits).At the moment only one parent has to, the other is expected to look after young children? What are the set hrs for the youngest child if the child is under4 or 5 yrs old?
"has too"? :eek: Don't some parents want to support their own children?
There will be a worker parent and a carer parent. The worker will have to earn their full 35 x NMW to avoid UC conditions, while the carer parents hours/earnings to avoid UC conditions, are increased according to the age of the youngest child. At the moment there is no limit to the number of children they can claim for, so they can keep having a baby to avoid work, but limiting the number of children they can claim for, has been talked about and I think it will have to come in to stop people keep using their children to avoid work. Or I suppose they could change the benefit cap to include parents who do some work, so that they are capped at the total amount of UC they get, regardless of how many children they keep having?Thirdly if you are correct then it is looking like most of those who at the moment claim WTC will indeed be classed as unemployed and be under conditionality. I mean who can earn £400wk from self employment these days?
My daughter does: but then she did a job while she built up her business to the point where it could support her, as she wasn't looking at self employment as a way to claim benefits while avoiding the work programmes. She still works 7 days a week building up her business and says it is much harder work than when she had a job. SE is not an easy option if people really are trying to run a business to live off.
One parent could work while the other continues their low earning business: or they could both work and run their low earning business as a hobby in their spare time (which is what it is if it isn't making enough to keep them). Or both keep with their low income business to try to earn a living from it and don't claim Universal Credit.
The welfare state will no longer support a failing business for years. Before Tax Credits came in just a decade ago, people got their business going in their spare time and only gave up their job when they knew they could earn a living wage from their business. The welfare state is going back to what it was intended for: supporting those in need, on a temporary basis.RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0 -
What if both do not earn that much, do they both have to be under conditionality? At the moment only one parent of young children has to go and sign on every 2weeks.0
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At the moment if someone does this move from jsa to wtc do they have to work 30 or 35hrs to get the most wtc?
After UC then it is 35 right? At the moment its still 30hrs?0 -
At the moment if someone does this move from jsa to wtc do they have to work 30 or 35hrs to get the most wtc?
30hours per week for just one of the parents; regardless of how much they earn; to maximise benefits.After UC then it is 35 right?
WTC is based on hours worked; even if they earn less than national minimum wage.
Universal Credit is based on hours at national minimum wage, therefore if you earn more than NMW, you can work less hours to avoid Universal Credit conditions. I guess this will stop firms dropping peoples wages to NMW as we saw one of the major supermarkets recently do, because they know people will take that drop in wage and just get benefits (Tax Credits) to top up their wages. Universal Credit is getting back to "a fair days work for a fair days pay" which will help people get off benefits. It will also stop those people who don't want to work much, from use the loophole in WTC to live off those who do want to work.
To avoid UC conditions for either parent, they must earn:-- The equivilant in £s of 35 hours at NMW per week, for the 'worker parent'. Which could be less than 35 hours per week if they earn more than national minimum wage per hour.
- Plus the equivilant in £s for the hours x NMW, the 'carer parent' is required to work. It could be 0 > 35 hours per week at NMW ; depending on the age of their youngest child.
RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0 -
What are the number of hrs required to work depending on age of youngest child please? Is there a link?
I would imagine once the youngest child is in school full time both parents would be required to to earn the same as 35hrs X NMW?
I do not think there will be many who will NOT be on conditionality, when this comes in. Pretty much everyone will be on conditionality, I expect the unemployment numbers will jump to reflect all those at the moment who say they are S.E. but make no profit yr after yr.0 -
I would imagine once the youngest child is in school full time both parents would be required to to earn the same as 35hrs X NMW?
No. It's only when the youngest is a teenager, that both will be required 35 x NMW.
It's going to stop the many posts we see on here that state something along the lines of 'our youngest has now gone off to university, we only work a few hours a week and we (the parents) can't survive without our child tax credits. Is there anything else we can claim'.
Under the present system, lots of single parents (who only have to work 16 hours a week to maximise Tax Credits) really come unstuck if they didn't return to full time work as their children got older and they just used their child's benefits as part of the household spending. Many don't seem to plan for their child's benefits (Child Tax Credits and Child benefits) ending or they fact that they can no longer claim WTC on just 16 hours a week anymore.RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0 -
Teenager, so 13?
When the youngest child gets to 13 conditionality will apply if they both dont earn 35hrs x NMW?
What is the scale though is it as the child gets older they have to work more hrs or earn the same as?0 -
Teenager, so 13?
From what I remember when I read about UC, it is 13. I think it said "over 12". I'm sure someone will correct me if that is wrong.When the youngest child gets to 13 conditionality will apply if they both dont earn 35hrs x NMW?
The worker parent should have already been earning their 35 x NMW to avoid UC conditions, regardless of the age of the youngest child. The carer parent would now need to meet the 35 x NMW; unless their partner earns enough to meet their 35 x NMW (or enough for the carer parent to work less hours).What is the scale though is it as the child gets older they have to work more hrs or earn the same as?
The carer parent will have a sliding scale of £s/needed. according to the age of the youngest child. I *think* I read is was the equivilant of 20 hours per week at NMW for the carer parent when the youngest reaches age 1 (or the worker parent can earn their UC requirement to avoid the care parents UC conditions). You will need to google to find the scale, unless someone else on her knows the scale.RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0 -
no free school meals if you receive working tax credits. Housing benefits will take into account the tax credits as well as your income and be reduced accordingly
You would need to work over 16 hours per week if you are a single parent...do you think you would be able to get 16 hours per week?
She is really saying she wants to start a business and just say she will work 16hrs wk, its just so she doesnt have to sign on.0
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