JSA Work programme

Nightranger

AP007 wrote: »

I don't understand what you are saying if that's not what you mean. Maybe you needed some kind of support not all of us do, we need job interviews.

Sorry mate but I find this comment rather insulting even if you did not intend it that way. We all need interviews but equally, I would never consider myself so perfect that I did not need some help or advice...or at a pinch the chance to listen to other ideas. I don't need general support, I know how to look for jobs and I know how to apply for them, my CV is absolutely fine, my education is good and my experience is extensive and varied...but what about the unexpected? The point I am trying to make is that there is a vast difference between:

a, believing you do not need help or support...and...
b, believing you will never need help or support.

Do not confuse the two or you will be saddled with the reputation for being arrogant...I know, I was that boy. I am very much the grumpy old man type now but equally I am learning to have a lot of humility because I know what it is like to be treated by those who don't have it.

AP007

Nightranger wrote: »

Sorry mate but I find this comment rather insulting even if you did not intend it that way. We all need interviews but equally, I would never consider myself so perfect that I did not need some help or advice...or at a pinch the chance to listen to other ideas. I don't need general support, I know how to look for jobs and I know how to apply for them, my CV is absolutely fine, my education is good and my experience is extensive and varied...but what about the unexpected? The point I am trying to make is that there is a vast difference between:

a, believing you do not need help or support...and...
b, believing you will never need help or support.

Do not confuse the two or you will be saddled with the reputation for being arrogant...I know, I was that boy. I am very much the grumpy old man type now but equally I am learning to have a lot of humility because I know what it is like to be treated by those who don't have it.

You said you got help well help doing what? Did they get you a job?

I don't believe anything hence me saying I went in with open eyes.

I asked for help (as in use the power you say you have and get me interviews which later on turned out to be a lie) and was told

1. I do not need it - we wont get get the like of you here. Showing them the responses I was getting they shrugged their shoulders and said nothing we can do. Aim higher.
2. There was nothing they could do to help

IE - they can not get interviews so as my cover letter was good and CV and I have recommendations on my LinkedIn page and 3 references what could they do?

I sat in a 30 mins session to make a LinkedIn page and did nothing as I have one.

Nightranger

AP007 wrote: »

You said you got help well help doing what? Did they get you a job?

I am not sure why you keep asking the same question when I have explained that the help I got was a buffer to something that happened and I have also explained that it is not something I can discuss on an open forum. In a way, it was probably quite a small thing but I cannot over-estimate how important it was.

AP007 wrote: »

I don't believe anything hence me saying I went in with open eyes.

Fair enough, certainly advisable to have that approach even if the expectation does not live up to the billing but that is pretty much true of anything in life.

AP007 wrote: »

I asked for help (as in use the power you say you have and get me interviews which later on turned out to be a lie) and was told

This I will agree with and was the reason my first WP provider failed and later suffered business problems. I shall not name them but they claimed to have lots of local links and when an ideal job came up I asked them to look into those links to see what they could do. It turned out that the whole claim was founded on a lie and noticeably none of the other providers have tried to make this claim although the one that lost their local office tried to behave like an employment agency.

AP007 wrote: »

1. I do not need it - we wont get get the like of you here. Showing them the responses I was getting they shrugged their shoulders and said nothing we can do. Aim higher.
2. There was nothing they could do to help

Again, I am amazed at this attitude. I hope they were feeding something positive back to the JC about you. I am not sure what you mean about 'responses you were getting' but that isn't the concern. The WP is there for everyone and is not optional just because you didn't get anything out of it nor does it mean that it is totally ineffective, which is not the same as saying the programme works for its intended purpose either. It is easy to blame the system and all the palliative programmes that are put in place and you and I know we are over-equipped for getting back into work in a time of recession. Nevertheless, people like you and I (there are a lot of us) have a responsibility for not installing pre-judgements in people. The bottomline is we are still in the long-term unemployed category and no matter whether you think there is nothing you can improve on in your own approach, I can assure you IDS doesn't see you in that way.

scooby088

OP I would go into the WP with a very open mind in what you and the WP achieve in the next 24 months. Ask for every bit of help you need and jump through their hoops. Continue to apply for the jobs you are applying for even register with more employment agencies.

If you need training or some courses the WP provider will only put you on the courses that are free or little cost, also during your time with a provider the jobcentre will ask how it is going look at your searches and applications. But anything else they will just say ask your provider.

My experience has been mixed for the time I was on it, I got put into a group that needed no help as such my CV was ok for the jobs I was applying for, I got a few shifts from an agency and was then black balled when asked for PPE to be provided. I assure you the WP aren't there to get you a job and any claim they can get you a job in total fiction.

I have took some positives from my time on the WP my advisor was a really nice bloke and did try to help. But I took more negatives with me.

scooby088

OP I would go into the WP with a very open mind in what you and the WP achieve in the next 24 months. Ask for every bit of help you need and jump through their hoops. Continue to apply for the jobs you are applying for even register with more employment agencies.

If you need training or some courses the WP provider will only put you on the courses that are free or little cost, also during your time with a provider the jobcentre will ask how it is going look at your searches and applications. But anything else they will just say ask your provider.

My experience has been mixed for the time I was on it, I got put into a group that needed no help as such my CV was ok for the jobs I was applying for, I got a few shifts from an agency and was then black balled when asked for PPE to be provided. I assure you the WP aren't there to get you a job and any claim they can get you a job in total fiction.

I have took some positives from my time on the WP my advisor was a really nice bloke and did try to help. But I took more negatives with me.

Nada666

The work programme will change your appointment day to clash with a time you are volunteering. When you query this they will seek to make money from sanctioning you.

Otherwise there will be four to six meetings per year that last four to six minutes (but forty to sixty minutes waiting time) in which no help is offered.

AP007

Nightranger wrote: »

Again, I am amazed at this attitude. I hope they were feeding something positive back to the JC about you. I am not sure what you mean about 'responses you were getting' but that isn't the concern. The WP is there for everyone and is not optional just because you didn't get anything out of it nor does it mean that it is totally ineffective, which is not the same as saying the programme works for its intended purpose either. It is easy to blame the system and all the palliative programmes that are put in place and you and I know we are over-equipped for getting back into work in a time of recession. Nevertheless, people like you and I (there are a lot of us) have a responsibility for not installing pre-judgements in people. The bottomline is we are still in the long-term unemployed category and no matter whether you think there is nothing you can improve on in your own approach, I can assure you IDS doesn't see you in that way.

Why would the WP feed anything back to the JC? They have no contact with them at all till you leave.

The responses I was getting like this '
We are looking for an entry level person for this position with about 1 or 2 years experience who we can really develop into the position. I'm afraid you are too experienced and the role wouldn't be enough.'

Or

'‘We did not feel your wealth of AP experience was best suited to this particular vacancy as our clients have instructed’

or

'Unfortunately you are over qualified for this role. If you are happy for me to, we may keep your CV on record to consider at a later date, should a more suitable vacancy become available'

the WP and the JC were not and never will be interested as they can not do anything to change it.

The WP is meant to be tailor made for the individual and its not, its one size fits all to the lowest common denominator. That is not what the DWP of Gov think it is.

4 weeks before my WP ended I had to watch a presentation that lasted about 3 hours (did one hour in the WP and the rest at home) telling people if you put your best clothes on and go to the library or station and ask for information on something you will be better treated. Showing us a photo of a man laying on the sofa with a beer and a tv remote!!!

Telling us how to dress for interview and what suit to wear etc like I wasn't already sitting there in one!!!!

Asking the question in the presentation 'have you given up drinking'? What drinking???

The WP assume all the unemployed are track suit wearing louts on the sofa with a beer and a TV remote and I told them so.

Nightranger

AP007 wrote: »

Why would the WP feed anything back to the JC? They have no contact with them at all till you leave.

Oh yes they do or rather, did. The truth is that WP providers and JC stopped talking to each other in the prescribed manner because the WP providers realised they were being hung out to dry in a system that does not work for its design purposes.

You asked why I had 'special needs' that you did not have...well, by a quirk of fate - not helped by my extensive experience and good qualifications - I had no firm reference routes. The WP provider did just what they say on the tin (provider...in case you did not figure it out) and I now have a seasonal job that will/is giving me extended hours beyond my contract, gives me a chance (a good one) at longer term employment.

Is it what I wanted? NO! Do I see myself staying with it? Honestly, I do not know. My education pushed me down certain lines and then I found I had a flare for something different (face-to-face work). Look down on supermarket chains at your peril. As always, pick your way carefully but I bridged gaps and used what I had to my advantage and looked for the gaps - be honest, if you are long-term unemployed they exist even if it is because you choose to treat certain jobs with a dismissive attitude - and turned in a new direction.

AP007, yes, this is a smug reply but I genuinely identify with your position (assuming it is genuine in itself???). I noted that you were turned down by a supermarket chain not so long ago...now...I am wondering why.

AP007

Nightranger wrote: »

.

AP007, yes, this is a smug reply but I genuinely identify with your position (assuming it is genuine in itself???). I noted that you were turned down by a supermarket chain not so long ago...now...I am wondering why.

not really sure what you are implying there? That I am lying?

But, let me see, no retail experience since 1987 and no where on the ASDA application form to list duties at my jobs over the last 10 years. Also the job was not on the shop floor but in the office and it was account based and I did an online test they said I never passed or didn't pass the assessment either or but you can not speak to ASDA HR as they do not allow calls to be put through to them and there is not chase up email.

Most supermarkets and shops don't allow further applications for 6 months.

Nightranger

AP007 wrote: »

not really sure what you are implying there? That I am lying?

Sorry friend but get over yourself, you implied that I had special needs that you didn't have. It was and is impossible to escape the fact that we all have needs...no one has a god-given right to work or any right to any particular position in life.

AP007 wrote: »

But, let me see, no retail experience since 1987 and no where on the ASDA application form to list duties at my jobs over the last 10 years. Also the job was not on the shop floor but in the office and it was account based and I did an online test they said I never passed or didn't pass the assessment either or but you can not speak to ASDA HR as they do not allow calls to be put through to them and there is not chase up email.

Really? I have NO, let me explain that, ZERO retail experience. No one has an automatic right to expect a position on reputation. If you failed an assessment you have to ask yourself why. I failed a numeracy test at interview by a stupid mistaken attempt to recognise a mathematical relationship. Heck, it is easy done.

AP007 wrote: »

Most supermarkets and shops don't allow further applications for 6 months.

Sheer and unreserved crap! I missed an application by way of a failed website failure that did not provide the standard tests. I completed these when an email told me I had failed for the original job...then I was short-tracked when the next opportunity came up. My mistake was recognised in less than one month.