Do you believe fracking in the UK will bring lower consumer energy costs?

Cardew

zeupater

There you go again! Using logic to trash an emotive argument.

Weird_Nev

PollySouthend wrote: »

There have been estimates anywhere from 3-108 years, the more recent estimates seam to be much higher, funny that. In the US USGS believes that reserves have been over estimated by at least 100% and some up to 500%.

Its very different the fracking to sandstone hundreds of miles out at sea to fracking for shale a hundred meters from people homes.

I don't think they can just use sea water without distilling it first, that is expensive. Water has to come from somewhere. http://www.water.org.uk/home/news/press-releases/challenge-on-gas-fracking

The water tables are very sensitive and any interference around them will affect them, especially one that involves toxic chemicals. You think these wells will be carefully constructed and not cause any damage, that is wishful.

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/static/documents/Business/6th_Dec_-_Shale_gas_-_North_West_-_Monitoring_of_flowback_water_-_update_(3).pdf

Polly,
My wife works as a hydrogeologist. She has worked on fracking projects around the world. Her primary concern is that frac'ing (Or other mining activity) does not deplete water resources, and does not pollute water tables.
A typical frac'd well uses about 5 Megalitres of water in total to perform the frac'ing. The UK produces over 1300 megalitres a DAY for general use. And yes, you can use saline water for fracing, without treatment other than the addition of chemicals you need to hold the frac'd well open to recover the product.
Fracing has been going on in the UK for decades - guess what, just about every drinking water bore hole is frac'd to improve yield, and they pump this water out, treat it and we drink it. It's also been going on around the world without causing earthquakes. It actually has a very low environmental impact since all you need is a wellhead, and you can do the rest with clever directional drilling underground. There are fracking sites in the UK in areas of outstanding natural beauty - you wouldn't even know they're there. Certainly, mistakes have been made by less scrupulous operators abroad, but Frac'ing is a tried and tested methodology and this could be an opportunity for immense wealth to be brought to the UK.

We need this, as a nation. You need energy. You need drinking water. You have used products from frac'd wells, and you will continue to do so. Get over it, learn some real information not over hyped scare stories from the ill informed, and let's frac on!

PollySouthend

zeupater wrote: »

next thing someone will complain about is that they'll likely refine & crystallise the contents of the process, put it into a plastic container, print a best before date on it, then sell it in supermarkets !!

I think someones head is running away with them, they did used to just dump nuclear waste in the north sea.

We are talking about millions of waste water per well to dispose of.

Cuadrilla (who have started fracking on the Fylde coast in
Lancashire) has suggested that they will pour it down holes on private land. The question then
is where will it go? It certainly will not respect the boundaries drawn on a map at the Land
Registry office. We will see it again, somewhere, sometime.

zeupater

PollySouthend wrote: »

I didn't say I thought wave alone could meet our energy needs, but anything that could potentially reduce the need of fossil fuels I think is good.

The decommissioning of a wave would leave very little damage, unlike nuclear and fracking where the high level damage is still there in thousands of years to come.

Ideally a cup of water could generate electricity, but i fear investment is mainly made in short term fixes.

Hi

Great from an ideological basis, but wave-power is pretty shaky considering both what has happened and where technology seems to be taking us ...

Wave-power research has had a considerable level of funding for decades ... we're probably in the fifth that I know about and it's still not considered as being commercially viable. The main problem is that, to maximise the benefits of the waves, any wave-power generator needs to be located in an area where you get big waves ... however that means that in extreme conditions, which happen pretty regularly, the quality of the engineering is severely tested. It's not so much that no one wants to do it, or that considerable R&D money hasn't been spent ... it's just that the engineering required to reduce the likelihood of system failure is prohibitively expensive on almost everything which has been tested to date ...

Having said that, the energy available in tidal streams and tidal lift is a far safer bet if you're looking for an eco-drum to beat. Simply dumping HS2 and diverting the funding to the Severn Barrage and other similar tidal projects would have far more positive impact on the UK economy ... but then again, the majority of MPs with constituencies outside London live to the North, travel by train, and go home every Thursday evening .... don't you just love their grasp of priorities ...:);)

HTH
Z

PollySouthend

Weird_Nev wrote: »

.. this could be an opportunity for immense wealth to be brought to the UK.

Wealth to whom?

The UK is so very very different to the US.

lstar337

Shock!

This thinly veiled poll has turned into another anti fracking debate.:eek:

Will the next poll be something to do with smart meters perhaps? :rotfl:

Weird_Nev

PollySouthend wrote: »

The interesting thing is in my last poll most people supported fracking but here most people don't think it will lower consumer energy prices.

Why then support it unless you are the crown / church / big business and all them lot?

What I find more interesting is that people are so anti something that they have literally no functional knowledge of. At all. That people would swallow thin-headed "anti" propaganda hook line and sinker without any critical thought being applied at all.

Did you even bother to read my points? You drink water from frac'd drinking wells in the UK ALL THE TIME. Frac'ing has been going on, quietly and successfully in the UK, for THIRTY YEARS. As far as mining practices go, it is a shining beacon of environmental responsibilty and low impact.

PollySouthend wrote: »

Wealth to whom?

Well, my wife for one. Her skills earn her six figures abroad right now, I'd love it if we could come home and earn that much.
But also:
Drillers
Welders
Pipeline construction
refinery workers
Energy sector workers
Shareholders
The UK - since companies will have to pay vast amounts of tax (in real terms if not percentages) to operate in the UK.

Not to mention that reducing our reliance on imported energy will assist in stabilising the economy, and will be of benefit to every man woman and child in the country. You included.

Keep your ear to the ground for earthquakes though.....

PollySouthend

Weird_Nev wrote: »

What I find more interesting is that people are so anti something that they have literally no functional knowledge of. At all. That people would swallow thin-headed "anti" propaganda hook line and sinker without any critical thought being applied at all.

Did you even bother to read my points? You drink water from frac'd drinking wells in the UK ALL THE TIME. Frac'ing has been going on, quietly and successfully in the UK, for THIRTY YEARS. As far as mining practices go, it is a shining beacon of environmental responsibilty and low impact.

What is your evidence that fracking is "shining beacon of environmental responsibility and low impact""? There are lots of cases where its gone wrong.

Did you read the argument against fracking I posted? Maybe you should try to provide a reply to them rather than just dismissing me as having no logical or critical thinking.

Well, my wife for one. Her skills earn her six figures abroad right now, I'd love it if we could come home and earn that much.
But also:
Drillers
Welders
Pipeline construction
refinery workers
Energy sector workers
Shareholders
The UK - since companies will have to pay vast amounts of tax (in real terms if not percentages) to operate in the UK.

Not to mention that reducing our reliance on imported energy will assist in stabilising the economy, and will be of benefit to every man woman and child in the country. You included.

Keep your ear to the ground for earthquakes though.....

So a few will benefit massively and there is the promise that every "every man woman and child in the country" will benefit. I remember the same promises about north sea oil. Also the virtually "free" energy from nucular that was promised and that never materialised.

PollySouthend

Weird_Nev wrote: »

Keep your ear to the ground for earthquakes though.....

I've never even mentioned earthquakes...

Cardew

Weird_Nev wrote: »

What I find more interesting is that people are so anti something that they have literally no functional knowledge of. At all. That people would swallow thin-headed "anti" propaganda hook line and sinker without any critical thought being applied at all.

I wouldn't mind so much if the OP was part of the 'anti everything' brigade with some deeply held convictions.

However I get the distinct impression that the threads he/she has started are purely for his/her amusement and it matters not on which side of the argument they choose to contribute.

i.e. if the majority of posts on this thread were anti-fracking, then the OP would have contributed in favour of the process.