MSE News: Student loans are not big enough

TurnUpForTheBooks_2

Er MedStudent, are you sure you aren't guilty of the same thing you accuse MSE of doing - I mean exaggerating? You have bolded the word PREMIUM but with help from your link, we can see that PREMIUM is by no means Imperial's best offer in that building

Viz

The single rooms are split into 3 categories: single en suite, premuim en suite and deluxe. The differences, compared to single ensuite rooms are premium rooms contain 3/4 double beds an extra chair and additional drawer space. Deluxe rooms contain the same as premium rooms but also have a coffee table.

Accommodation fees 2013 -14 session
En suite deluxe single room £250.00 per week
En suite premium single room £215.00 per week
En suite single room £201.00per week
En suite twin room £131.00 per person per week
Contract period
39 week contract period

I am vaguely familiar with Falmouth Hall as was. Has it been rebuilt since it was first named? If it hasn't, I read on www.british-history.ac.uk that it might be 50 years old this year :eek: I hope any hint of asbestos has been removed, but I would think those RCS types might have known better by 1963, eh?

I remember some pals from Imperial showed me another of the accommodation blocks down somewhere south of Gloucester Road station which was converted Victorian/Edwardian houses I think. It was a total rabbit warren of a place which again I hope has been totally gutted and rebuilt because I remember one fire escape route which gave me nightmares after one crazy party. So I may have dreamed it, but I recall it went into the roof space in order to cross to the neighbouring block but the route was so narrow that someone like me had to turn sideways to squeeze through!

Pincher

Want more scientists and engineers? Allocate 5,000 £2,000 scholarships for qualifying courses. Make sure they can read and write and do calculus, so some kind of entrance exam as part of the interview process.

Logica used to give you money during studies, and then you get work placements after you graduate. Give companies like that a tax break for the sponsorship deal.

I would be amused to see if advertising companies will sponsor media studies students like that. Hmm, cheap way of sending little Henrietta to university by embezzling company funds, I suppose.

Alarae

As a final year student, I thought I would weigh in. Loans/grants in my opinion are perfectly fine- they will for the most part cover accommodation unless the student has opted for the 'premium' rooms- if they do that, then they shouldn't moan when they have no money.

Also having £30 a week to live off is fine, the loan is only meant to cover your food/stationary costs. If you want to go out drinking as a student, then go find a part time job. There is always something available, even if it is a bar/waiting job. This can fund anything extra. You don't really need to buy textbooks as a student really unless they are ones you take into the exam halls- just go to the library.

It really irks me that a lot of my fellow students complain they have no money and have maxed out their overdraft, but then they go out three/four times a week and blow a ton on alcohol/takeaways/clothes.

Between years at Uni I have ended up working full time over the summer holidays (two jobs at the moment) before cutting my hours to part time through my course. This gives me my 'play' money, while my student loan covers my accommodation/living costs.

It's not the loans that are to blame a lot of the time, it's how the student uses it.

(On another note I realise there is the 'squeezed middle' where students get less loan due to parents income but get no extra support from parents, but that's another story.)

TurnUpForTheBooks_2

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy

I feel it very much depends on the course and your relationships with fellow students as to whether you actually "need" to socialise and whether you have the necessary extra stamina to do part-time work as well as master all the coursework (especially mathematics, science and engineering) / satisfy placement obligations (medical students?)

Even those entering university to study science and engineering present a wide spectrum of actual mathematical ability/dexterity (take note of Pincher's urge that evidence of early mastery of calculus is a good test). It is very easy to fall behind the leading students unless you devote some hours in liaising with your fellow students / accepting additional maths lessons / simply practising the maths so that it truly does become mastered. In these challenging courses, the aim is not really to teach you maths but to show you how to use it as a tool to then go on to automatically use that tool to begin to master your chosen university course. Some of it you can do as some kind of hermit, but not much unless you are a pure geek! Engineering courses, especially, then teach young mathematicians to become effective team members in serious problem-solving scenarios. There is little point becoming an expert in anything unless you can work with other experts and wannabes as part of an effective team to actually build something with your joint expertise and sense of enterprise and social responsibility within a fun group. This is a social skill that surely can only be developed by belonging to groups who do not just study and memorise stuff!

You cannot do all these things unless you recognise that social groups of fellow students will need to let their hair down sometimes and you probably need to belong to that part of the university experience just as importantly as you do to the part where you may be slaving away alone under your desklamp consuming salad sandwiches by the end of the semester, and drinking tap-water.

If your university intentions are closer to anonymously following well beaten UG paths to answering standard exam questions by rote in less challenging subjects than science engineering law medicine etc then fine, I am sure you can survive on quite modest amounts, but there has to be more to university than just surviving and walking away with a piece of paper, doesn't there?

celyn90

Alarae, if I could thank your very sensible and grounded post a thousand times, I would.

Noone says it has to be all work, but one point that is often missed is that some work also creates an employment history you can show to future employer as something that sets you apart from other people with just a degree. You develop many skills in a work environment - and IMO these are a great deal more useful that those acquired in the bar. I think it is incredibly short-sighted to assume that you don't develop useful skills whilst working, that you don't learn anything through this process and that you don't gain anything other than money. After all, that is the end aim for most courses of study - to work after graduation.

Working does not necessarily stop you socialising completely, nor does it mean you don't talk to people or have to miss classes. You do what you can, what you can cope with and what you are comfortable with.

I worked during my studies, both during term time and the holidays; doing a variety of jobs from relevant placements to agency work. I left university with savings, but more importantly also a work history that I could use to prove to employers that I had a work ethic, that I could manage multiple things at once and could adapt easily to diverse tasks.

I studied physical science at University. Working did not influence my degree grade. It can be done, it just depends on what you class as a priority and whether you think two weeks ahead or two years ahead. I went to University to get a degree and to be able to work in my chosen field (for which you need both undergrad and postgrad degrees).

There is more to Uni than walking away with the piece of paper - but I wouldn't consider it particularly prudent to borrow to spend on frippery whilst not at Uni, so why does being a student make it any more acceptable?

thatlemming

If my parents didn't put their hand in their pocket for my and my brother, neither of us would be able to go to uni, and we're both STEM students at top 10 Russell group unis.

I worked during first year, doing data inputting for my uni, but this year they won't give me a job because my modules are very very lab-heavy, I'm in over 30 hours a week without any additional reading etc. And if uni think I can't cope with a job and my schedule then I'm going to believe them. I got a very high first in first year and I don't want to lose that.

My student loan just about covers my rent and leaves me nothing else. I get a £1000 merit grant from the uni and this year I get slightly smaller tuition fees due to my grades last year, but I imagine most people can't live on £1000/year when they have to pay for food etc.

I got an internship over summer and was lucky enough to get paid for it, and have one next summer, also paid for. I've had jobs since the age of 13 so have some savings, but even with them, I couldn't pay my way through three years of uni unless I never did anything except sit in my room and revise.

The student loan needs to be equalised tbh, I know people who get huge amounts because their parents don't work. Why is my family being punished because my parents do work hard? Neither of my parents went to uni, I was the first in my family, and they've saved bloody hard to send me and my brother to our respective unis when others get it handed on a plate. And no, we're not a high income family, we're between 30 and 40k, stuck in the middle and being punished for it.

Lokolo

thatlemming wrote: »

If my parents didn't put their hand in their pocket for my and my brother, neither of us would be able to go to uni, and we're both STEM students at top 10 Russell group unis.

Well that's a lie really isn't it.

My accomondation was £1k less than my student loan because of where I went to uni (it was cheap). I didn't NEED a job, I still got one, and thanks to grandparents I lived very comfortably throughout university. Obviously if I didn't have the job or help, I would have survived, but maybe wouldn't have been able to have my car.

TurnUpForTheBooks_2

Lokolo wrote: »

Well that's a lie really isn't it.

My accomondation was £1k less than my student loan because of where I went to uni (it was cheap). I didn't NEED a job, I still got one, and thanks to grandparents I lived very comfortably throughout university. Obviously if I didn't have the job or help, I would have survived, but maybe wouldn't have been able to have my car.

Lokolo, are you okay? There isn't a whole lot of logic or spellchecking in your response to this one, and that is most unlike you! I also know a few students on Russell Group Sci Tech Eng Maths (did I get that right? ). They've had jobs for a while before university and for the most part managed to secure part-time jobs seamlessly with their moves to uni. But one in particular has already said he will stop working if the course demands become much more intense even though I know he loves his job (which he is very good at because he is already a well-rounded engaging sort).

I really don't think it is very useful to impress upon students who have set themselves the biggest challenges at university (the most demanding courses) that they should of course be working to live.

The current system asks our young people to make rational decisions about being given guaranteed access to enormous debt if they can use it in a well-planned way, and then instantly dumbs down their game plan by treating them like the lowest of the low at the Jobcentre - "of course you can survive on that standard grant/loan (=pittance)", "of course you can get a job", "of course you shouldn't be spending money on socialising", etc.

What are we really telling them? It is a horribly inconsistent mixture of Don't Worry/Be Happy/Don't Spend/Don't Calculate Interest/Do watch the pennies/Do Work/Do STEM if you can/Don't expect much extra help if you can't/Don't listen to your Parents/Grandparents concerns for you/Do Accept that you are inextricably linked to them and they to you even though you are living as an independent financial unit.

space.girl_2

I have the minimum loan about £3500 per year. I like to socalise so I chose to get the cheapest halls £65 a week.

If there is a £500 a year shortfall, ask your daughter to put her weekend job money in instead of buying ALCOHOL!!!

I budget well, and sacrafice things. I will never have sympathy for students claiming not to have enough money but still buy alcohol.

MikeCam

Cambridge is one of the cheapest places in the UK to study. The accommodation is provided by the colleges, resulting in the students only paying during term for the entire course (3/4 years). The rents vary from college to college but are rarely over £100/week (as long as you don't choose the most expensive room), and the students only pay for 27 weeks per year, though there is a fixed charged per term ~£170. This gives a total cost of around £3,200/year.

The Cambridge bursary scheme is extremely generous for those that receive any part of the government grant. Even those who wouldn't qualify can be eligible for rent rebates at some colleges as well as college awards (generally up to £1k/year). There are also awards for academic merit and additional scholarships (though typically only ~£200-400/year if you get a first). The main benefit is often choosing high on the rooms ballot the following year and getting the best value rooms.

If your child is thinking of applying to any Russell Group university and is worried about costs, I would definitely advise applying to Cambridge.