Orange refuse to replace my faulty iphone

Curlylox_2

Apologies if this subject has been covered before, but this site is a little confusing to navigate.

I need help with Orange. I have and iphone4s since February 2012. In May this year it broke, and Orange referred me to Apple store, who replaced it free of charge under warranty under their warranty.
The phone has recently broken again, 17 months into the contract.

I called Orange, who once again directed me to Apple. I advised them that Apple wouldn’t replace the phone free of charge (I already know this), as the phone in Apples eyes was now 17 months old. Orange customer service gave me some !!!! and bull story about my contract for "purchasing" the phone was not with them, only the purchase of the sim was. I disputed this and said, the contact I took out was specifically for a phone (iphone4s) for 24 months. Customer Services disagreed, in fact the bloke I spoke to was an annoying idiot and they plainly been given some script to recite to avoid their contractual responsibilities. They told me that as the phones come boxed directly from Apple and all they do is attach a sim to the outside of the box, my dispute is with Apple.
To humour Orange I have today been to the Genius Bar, where it was confirmed by Apple that indeed as I didn't buy the phone directly from them, I must go back to Orange, as it is their responsibility as that is who I have the contract with.

Frankly, having spent over 2 hours last week on the phone to Orange trying to get my bill (they overcharged me) and my online account sorted out - I don't really relish another phone call.

So what I want to know is, am I right? I believe that regardless of whether I bought and paid for an phone specifically, the contract I have is with Orange and the contract is for an iphone and sim and therefore they are responsible to either repair or replace the phone when it breaks within the Sale of Goods terms.

If the phone needs to go back to Apple, they should organise this free of charge for me.

My only concern is as the phone was free on the contract, I guess technically I didn't buy the phone from Orange however I still think I'm right and my contract is with them so therefore they are responsible.

Can anyone advise if I am right to take this stance, and any ideas on the next steps I should take? I am not averse to going the County Court route, as I have done this before with Comet.

simax

Do you have insurance? If so, claim on that?

If not, your phone has a 12 month warranty, so you'd need to pay for a replacement.

And before you quote Sale of Goods Act, you need to prove (at your own expense) that the phone was faulty when you bought it if you want to go down that route. If you can't, then that law does not apply.

grumbler

Orange supplied the phone and they are responsible under the SoGA. Full stop.

Generally, the fact that you had the phone replaced directly by Apple voids your protection under the SoGA, but you have to stick to your guns that you acted under Orange's instructions.

If they refuse to repair or replace it, send them a letter before action giving them, say, 10 days to do this, and informing them that you are submitting a claim to the small claims court otherwise.

However, if they agree to repair it, but then blame you for damaging it, you'll have to prove them wrong.

simax wrote: »

...your phone has a 12 month warranty, so you'd need to pay for a replacement.

No, they don't have to.

And before you quote Sale of Goods Act, you need to prove (at your own expense) that the phone was faulty when you bought it if you want to go down that route.

Only if Orange refuse to repair/replace because it was allegedly damaged, not "before" like you say. So far Orange just blatantly fobbed the OP off at least twice.

NFH

simax wrote: »

If not, your phone has a 12 month warranty, so you'd need to pay for a replacement.

Totally wrong. The warranty is in addition to, and does not replace, the consumer's statutory rights. Don't they teach you this in your training as an EE employee?

Where goods are supplied as a standalone product, the Sale of Goods Act 1979 applies. However, where goods are supplied in conjunction with a service (as is the case here), the relevant legislation is Section 11N of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 which obliges the supplier (not the manufacturer) to repair or replace defective goods free of charge if they develop a defect within a reasonable time after their supply. This legislation is over 30 years old and has been well tested in court. The law doesn't define what a reasonable time is, but where goods are supplied in conjunction with a service, a court would determine a reasonable time to be at least the minimum duration of the service contract. The maximum time is limited to six years by Section 5 of the Limitation Act 1980.

It is irrelevant that EE might have separate written agreements for the goods and the service because:

• EE supplied the goods with the intention that they be used with the service.
• The goods were supplied at the price paid on condition of entering into the contract for service.
• The goods were funded, either partially or fully, by the monthly charge for service.
• The goods were supplied at the same time that the service started.
• The goods and service were marketed as a package.

NFH

Curlylox wrote: »

I need help with Orange. I have and iphone4s since February 2012. In May this year it broke, and Orange referred me to Apple store, who replaced it free of charge under warranty under their warranty.

You will need to emphasise to Orange that you went to Apple upon Orange's instructions and that Apple was acting as Orange's repair agent, fulfilling Orange's obligations under Section 11N of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

Earthworm

What is the fault with the handset? It is difficult to say whether you should pursue this in the ways stated above without knowing what actually happened to the phone. If this does however turn out to be a fault that has developed over time or randomly, without physical damage from a person, then what grumbler and NFH are saying would be right.

Buzby

Agreed - without knowing what the fault is, talk of court action is reckless and I'll-advised, especially from those who should know better.

Your contract is for service - and Orange have no responsibility to you to keep it going for the duration.

NFH

Buzby wrote: »

Your contract is for service - and Orange have no responsibility to you to keep it going for the duration.

If Orange fails in its obligations under Section 11N to repair the goods, then it will have a hard time enforcing the charge for the related service. See my five bullet points above.

Bobbybaggio

You'll be wasting your time trying to use the Sale of Goods Act. This is because proving a fault was present at point of sale 18 months after purchase is almost impossible. In addition the device you have was provided by Apple and not Orange so (by my understanding) Apple are liable for the warranty of the current device - which has expired!

You're not alone in being frustrated by Apple's poor warranty. They are facing legal challenges across Europe as EU law states a warranty must be 24 months. However I think we're a good year off seeing any improvement.

You could ask Orange if they can give you an early upgrade option. This will likely involve an early upgrade fee or a slightly more expensive offer. However you may be able to recycle your IPhone for a decent price to cover the extra costs.

Hope this helps

grumbler

Bobbybaggio wrote: »

You'll be wasting your time trying to use the Sale of Goods Act. This is because proving a fault was present at point of sale 18 months after purchase is almost impossible.

However, it's very easy to prove that the fault isn't a result of the user-inflicted damage, that is essentially the same. The device has to last for a reasonable time. Anyone in their right mind will agree that a £500 phone has to last more than 17 months.

In addition the device you have was provided by Apple and not Orange so (by my understanding)

Yes, but as highlighted above, it wasn't the OP's choice to deal with Apple directly.

You're not alone in being frustrated by Apple's poor warranty. They are facing legal challenges across Europe as EU law states a warranty must be 24 months.

SoGA says essentially the same without limiting it by 24 months. However, it's the supplier's liability, not the manufacturer's warranty in both EU (AFAIK) and UK.

NFH

Bobbybaggio wrote: »

You'll be wasting your time trying to use the Sale of Goods Act.

Yes, as explained above, this is not the relevant legislation.

Bobbybaggio wrote: »

This is because proving a fault was present at point of sale 18 months after purchase is almost impossible.

One only needs to prove that the defect was not caused by misuse and was therefore a defect concerning durability at the time of supply.

Bobbybaggio wrote: »

In addition the device you have was provided by Apple and not Orange

No, it was supplied by Orange. The identity of the manufacturer and of Orange's repair agent is irrelevant.

Bobbybaggio wrote: »

so (by my understanding) Apple are liable for the warranty of the current device - which has expired!

Any warranty is a contractual right in addition to, and does not replace, a consumer's statutory rights. The expiry of the warranty is irrelevant.

Bobbybaggio wrote: »

They are facing legal challenges across Europe as EU law states a warranty must be 24 months. However I think we're a good year off seeing any improvement.

The EU directive to which you are referring mandates that a consumer's statutory rights may not be curtailed sooner than two years. English law already allows six years. Therefore English law was not amended as a result of the directive.