To Solar, or not to Solar...

HopefulDave

Hello All!

Hoping someone can help.

Me and my family have been looking in to getting solar panels. To save money and to help the environment.

But we're stuck on what to do. We recently had a quote from 1st Energy based in Essex.

Firstly, has anyone heard of them or what they're like etc? They check out on the government websites but we need to know if they've got a good reputation and trustworthy.

The deal we have been offered is;

16 panels at 11,000 pounds.
Solar edge Inverter and Axitec panels.
4 kwp output, Azimuth is 45 degrees from South with 38 degrees inclination with a shading factor of 1.

They reckon we can save 80 per cent on our elec bills and they'll install a diverter so some energy heats our water rather than gas.

Export rate of 0.04pence and an FIT of 0.1490 pence.

They state we will get minimum of 346 pounds per quarter "guaranteed" and we have to pay 144 pounds per month for the free panels (I think they mean loan!) which works out 9.9 per cent over 10 years...
From their calculations, we will start saving money/seeing returns within 6.5 years...

So what do people think, is it worth it, does it actually cost us more money, is the scheme guaranteed?

I want to make the best decision for my family.

Please advise.

Thanks much!

Martyn1981

Hiya Dave, the price is way, way too high. Over £7k for 4kWp is getting expensive, aim for £6k. Though the extra cost of SolarEdge PO's (power optimisers) @ about £40 per panel, and a diversionary switch, will push the quote up a bit. I've got a SolarEdge system on my WNW install as it has a lot of shading issues, great system and great warranties, but if you don't have shading issues, I wouldn't bother.

The FiT rate is correct but the export is wrong, it should be 4.64p, but that is on a deemed 50% export (it doesn't get metered - even if you divert it into your hot water). So for ease of calculations it's 2.32p on all generation.

Leccy savings will depend on how much you use, and if you are daytime consumers. 80% reduction is extremely unlikely. Our reduction is close to 50% but we've got panels in all directions (see autosig). Assume leccy savings of around £120 (£80 to £160) but aim for more if you can.

Happy to run through generation estimates, numbers etc, but for now might be more informative to have a read of this recent thread (with quotes) and some of the links it includes:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4754866

All the best.

[Edit: Sorry, short answer regarding this particular offer .... run away, don't look back. M.]

Mart.

zeupater

HopefulDave wrote: »

Hello All!

Hoping someone can help.

Me and my family have been looking in to getting solar panels. To save money and to help the environment.

But we're stuck on what to do. We recently had a quote from 1st Energy based in Essex.

Firstly, has anyone heard of them or what they're like etc? They check out on the government websites but we need to know if they've got a good reputation and trustworthy.

The deal we have been offered is;

16 panels at 11,000 pounds.
Solar edge Inverter and Axitec panels.
4 kwp output, Azimuth is 45 degrees from South with 38 degrees inclination with a shading factor of 1.

They reckon we can save 80 per cent on our elec bills and they'll install a diverter so some energy heats our water rather than gas.

Export rate of 0.04pence and an FIT of 0.1490 pence.

They state we will get minimum of 346 pounds per quarter "guaranteed" and we have to pay 144 pounds per month for the free panels (I think they mean loan!) which works out 9.9 per cent over 10 years...
From their calculations, we will start saving money/seeing returns within 6.5 years...

So what do people think, is it worth it, does it actually cost us more money, is the scheme guaranteed?

I want to make the best decision for my family.

Please advise.

Thanks much!

Hi

Initial observations ....

A 16 panel system is likely to be ~4kWp, therefore the price quoted is likely to be around double what you should be able get the system for. A proportional power diversion system should cost somewhere around £300 if you want one

I don't know what your electric bills are, and I guess that the installer doesn't either !! .... your savings are likely to be much closer to around £100 without diverting power to hot water, or ~£150 if diverting and replacing gas as the heat source. Even if you're really optimistic and work on a combined saving of £200, an 80% saving would suggest that your annual fuel bill (electricity+hotwater) is a mere £250(200/0.8) .... :rotfl:

SAP generation on a SW/SE 4kWp system should work out in the low/mid 3000kWhs ... guessing at 3300kWh/year at the 16.9p/kWh you've been told the income would be around £550-£600/year.

Your total annual range of saving is therefore likely to be £650(550+100) to £800(600+200), thus nowhere near the claimed £1384(346x4) .... I suggest that you have them check the terms of their 'guaranteed' income/savings ....

Leaving the complexity of interest rates and inflation aside, taking the £11000 cost and applying the optimistic saving of £800/year, you will not see any return for ~14 years ....

Using their figures of £144/month for 10 years would result in the system costing a total of 17280(144*12*10) ... without energy inflation this would take an optimistic 21.6 years to pay back (17280/800), therefore including energy inflation you could round that down to 20 years .... conveniently, that's exactly the length of the FiT contract you will have.

If you follow the above logic, and I very much hope you do, you will see that the offering is specifically designed to relieve you of all of the returns you could expect from the entire length of the FiT scheme contract ... that would seem to be an example of extreme coincidence -or- extremely convenient ....

Looking at the information you have been given I would have thought that each of the following bodies would be extremely interested - MCS, REAL, FCA & Trading Standards, however, it's probably easier to just look to get a realistic quote from elsewhere ....

HTH
Z

mickyduck

I have a 4 kWp system bought a couple of years ago for about your quote, as already stated that quote is far too expensive.

Youknowme_2

As others have suggested that quote is far too high, and by thousands rather than hundreds.

Winter_Phoenix

I totally agree with what the others have said. I paid c£9000 for 4kWp two years ago - and prices have fallen considerably since then.

And the estimated savings on your electricity bill seem unrealistic - solar panels only provide free electricity while the sun is shining (or to a lesser degree when there is plenty of light in the sky on a cloudy day), so you will continue to pay for all electricity used when it's dark. Up to a point, you can change your usage habits (turn on the washing machine when it's sunny, etc.) but some electrical appliances (fridge, freezer) need power 24/7 and some (lighting, TV) are generally used more in the darker evenings.

I'm very happy with my solar panels, but I highly recommend that you get several more quotes from different firms, and compare prices/specifications, before having them installed by whichever company offers the best deal.

dreaming

I paid "just" over £6k for 16 panels in April 2013 and have received my first FiT payment of £293 in September (reading taken mid July so probably the best period of the year). I also had a quote for £5k although I didn't know the firm (one I used was local established firm and was the only one who went into the loft on the initial survey), and another for £8.5k, so you can see your quote is significantly higher.
I found the advice on this forum to be incredibly helpful and it gave me the confidence to go ahead with my installation with realistic expectations. My advice would be to get as much information as you can then get at least 3 quotes (if not more)before making a decision.

HopefulDave

Hello to everyone who has replied.

Thank you so much! This site is the reason salespeople need to up their game. I am now going to play hardball and get newer quotes thanks to you lot! Will update this space soon. Thank you!