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Looks like my partner will be sanctioned?
GamerInfo
Posts: 158 Forumite
Hi i wondered if anyone had any advice.
About 4wks ago my partner finished the WP and had his first appointment with a JC advisor - this was a pretty harsh 1hr and although my partner didnt like being repeatedly called a liar he took the telling off and came home lookinbg to take on board what he was told.
His agreement was updated to him applying for at least 6 jobs per week - on average he was applying at that time for around 25 jobs per week, however as he never logged it down in his active history via UJM there was no proof of this.
So he's been upping his job search each week to include around 30 job applications per week - and as most will know at least half of those via UJM take him off site to submit his CV or fill in an application form. He's been lgging these jobs down in his active history making sute to include the email he sent his cv/application to the name of the site he was taken to the job id number and the job title.
On his second weekly appointment he was told that as he has a 3yr break in employment on his CV he need to fill this with jobs and was told to lie on his CV - make up employer details/job titles and put family members/friends down as references for these fake jobs.
Within a day or so of him updating his CV with these 'fake' jobs he was called for an interview - however the job was only for 12hrs per week. He explained this to the employer and was told that they should be able to get him 16hrs and they would discuss this further with him in an interview the following day. Anyhow to cut a long story short, he showed up and was introduced to another manager who they wanted my partner to work with in a job share capacity in a supervisors position. My partner explained that he didnt have the relevent experience - they said no problems we'll train you. He left the interview having signed a form to start employment for 12hrs per week with a verbal agreement that he would eventually take on the supervisor role. 6 phonecalls later to the employer and they kept changing the subject re. the full time position an said they only had 12hrs available (2 hrs per day, 6 days per week).
He had an appointment booked a few days later with his JC adviser and so told him what had happened and what he should do about the 12hr per week job offer. As the employment is around 3miles away he would need to use public transport costing around £24 per week or around £60 per month if he were to purchase a bus pass). As we would be worse off financially as we get no help with travel, the adviser told him that he would not be forced to accept it and that the decision lay with my partner.
His adviser see's him weekly and up until yesterday when he saw a different adviser, things had been going ok. However he was told the following:
- the jobs shown in the active history via UJm were not proof he was applying for jobs and for all they know he could ba making these up, therefore in order to prove he's sent his cv/applications to the companies they want/need access to his email account.
- if he does not give them email access they want printouts of every single email he sends - we do not have a printer and the local library charges 15p per 1 page printout. As he averages around 25 jobs per week he will need 25 printouts per week - the money for this being paid for by us.
- everytime he emails his cv to a company he now has to physically hand a paper copy to the company - again the travel and CV printouts must be paid for by us and they want to see all the proof he's done this (presumably with bus tickets and a signed receipt from the actual company he's handed them in to)
He was asked about the 12hr job offer and what was happening with this - my partner told them that he decided against it as 1. we would be worse off and 2. he wanted employment that would see him off JSA and 12hrs a week wouldn't do this. He also explained that his usual adviser told him the choice was his to make...
After i called them today for some advice re the email account access i was told that my partners case has been sent to a decision maker as he turned down employment. We explained that this was only turned down as the adviser agreed we would be worse off financially and that he would not be forced/expected to take it and that if he didnt take it he wouldnt face any action - ultimately it was up to my partner how he proceeded.
Where do we go from here? Im really worried about us losing our money and not being able to pay our bills?
I feel sanctions are a good idea when deserved, but not on the advice of a JC adviser who clearly gave out the wrong advice...
About 4wks ago my partner finished the WP and had his first appointment with a JC advisor - this was a pretty harsh 1hr and although my partner didnt like being repeatedly called a liar he took the telling off and came home lookinbg to take on board what he was told.
His agreement was updated to him applying for at least 6 jobs per week - on average he was applying at that time for around 25 jobs per week, however as he never logged it down in his active history via UJM there was no proof of this.
So he's been upping his job search each week to include around 30 job applications per week - and as most will know at least half of those via UJM take him off site to submit his CV or fill in an application form. He's been lgging these jobs down in his active history making sute to include the email he sent his cv/application to the name of the site he was taken to the job id number and the job title.
On his second weekly appointment he was told that as he has a 3yr break in employment on his CV he need to fill this with jobs and was told to lie on his CV - make up employer details/job titles and put family members/friends down as references for these fake jobs.
Within a day or so of him updating his CV with these 'fake' jobs he was called for an interview - however the job was only for 12hrs per week. He explained this to the employer and was told that they should be able to get him 16hrs and they would discuss this further with him in an interview the following day. Anyhow to cut a long story short, he showed up and was introduced to another manager who they wanted my partner to work with in a job share capacity in a supervisors position. My partner explained that he didnt have the relevent experience - they said no problems we'll train you. He left the interview having signed a form to start employment for 12hrs per week with a verbal agreement that he would eventually take on the supervisor role. 6 phonecalls later to the employer and they kept changing the subject re. the full time position an said they only had 12hrs available (2 hrs per day, 6 days per week).
He had an appointment booked a few days later with his JC adviser and so told him what had happened and what he should do about the 12hr per week job offer. As the employment is around 3miles away he would need to use public transport costing around £24 per week or around £60 per month if he were to purchase a bus pass). As we would be worse off financially as we get no help with travel, the adviser told him that he would not be forced to accept it and that the decision lay with my partner.
His adviser see's him weekly and up until yesterday when he saw a different adviser, things had been going ok. However he was told the following:
- the jobs shown in the active history via UJm were not proof he was applying for jobs and for all they know he could ba making these up, therefore in order to prove he's sent his cv/applications to the companies they want/need access to his email account.
- if he does not give them email access they want printouts of every single email he sends - we do not have a printer and the local library charges 15p per 1 page printout. As he averages around 25 jobs per week he will need 25 printouts per week - the money for this being paid for by us.
- everytime he emails his cv to a company he now has to physically hand a paper copy to the company - again the travel and CV printouts must be paid for by us and they want to see all the proof he's done this (presumably with bus tickets and a signed receipt from the actual company he's handed them in to)
He was asked about the 12hr job offer and what was happening with this - my partner told them that he decided against it as 1. we would be worse off and 2. he wanted employment that would see him off JSA and 12hrs a week wouldn't do this. He also explained that his usual adviser told him the choice was his to make...
After i called them today for some advice re the email account access i was told that my partners case has been sent to a decision maker as he turned down employment. We explained that this was only turned down as the adviser agreed we would be worse off financially and that he would not be forced/expected to take it and that if he didnt take it he wouldnt face any action - ultimately it was up to my partner how he proceeded.
Where do we go from here? Im really worried about us losing our money and not being able to pay our bills?
I feel sanctions are a good idea when deserved, but not on the advice of a JC adviser who clearly gave out the wrong advice...
0
Comments
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Hi i wondered if anyone had any advice.
About 4wks ago my partner finished the WP and had his first appointment with a JC advisor - this was a pretty harsh 1hr and although my partner didnt like being repeatedly called a liar he took the telling off and came home lookinbg to take on board what he was told.
His agreement was updated to him applying for at least 6 jobs per week - on average he was applying at that time for around 25 jobs per week, however as he never logged it down in his active history via UJM there was no proof of this.
He should have been writing them down on the booklet/sheet
So he's been upping his job search each week to include around 30 job applications per week - and as most will know at least half of those via UJM take him off site to submit his CV or fill in an application form. He's been lgging these jobs down in his active history making sute to include the email he sent his cv/application to the name of the site he was taken to the job id number and the job title.
I write The Date, name of the company job title, job ref, how I applied, what site the advert was on and the date I will chase this up
On his second weekly appointment he was told that as he has a 3yr break in employment on his CV he need to fill this with jobs and was told to lie on his CV - make up employer details/job titles and put family members/friends down as references for these fake jobs.
Are they serious? Did he get this in writing?
Within a day or so of him updating his CV with these 'fake' jobs he was called for an interview - however the job was only for 12hrs per week. He explained this to the employer and was told that they should be able to get him 16hrs and they would discuss this further with him in an interview the following day. Anyhow to cut a long story short, he showed up and was introduced to another manager who they wanted my partner to work with in a job share capacity in a supervisors position. My partner explained that he didnt have the relevent experience - they said no problems we'll train you. He left the interview having signed a form to start employment for 12hrs per week with a verbal agreement that he would eventually take on the supervisor role. 6 phonecalls later to the employer and they kept changing the subject re. the full time position an said they only had 12hrs available (2 hrs per day, 6 days per week).
He had an appointment booked a few days later with his JC adviser and so told him what had happened and what he should do about the 12hr per week job offer. As the employment is around 3miles away he would need to use public transport costing around £24 per week or around £60 per month if he were to purchase a bus pass). As we would be worse off financially as we get no help with travel, the adviser told him that he would not be forced to accept it and that the decision lay with my partner.
His adviser see's him weekly and up until yesterday when he saw a different adviser, things had been going ok. However he was told the following:
- the jobs shown in the active history via UJm were not proof he was applying for jobs and for all they know he could ba making these up, therefore in order to prove he's sent his cv/applications to the companies they want/need access to his email account.
He can email the advisor all the emails he gets after he has applied like say on www.reed.co.uk you get an email saying you have applied but some you don't. They are not allowed to demand access to anyone's email account!!!!
- if he does not give them email access they want printouts of every single email he sends - we do not have a printer and the local library charges 15p per 1 page printout. As he averages around 25 jobs per week he will need 25 printouts per week - the money for this being paid for by us.
Email it to the advisor they ALL HAVE EMAIL!!
- everytime he emails his cv to a company he now has to physically hand a paper copy to the company - again the travel and CV printouts must be paid for by us and they want to see all the proof he's done this (presumably with bus tickets and a signed receipt from the actual company he's handed them in to)
LOL How will he do this? Its impossible to go to visit a company to hand in a CV. Get him to get all of this in writing from the Manager of the job and also who is going to pay for the travel and ask how he will get into some companies to hand this in?
He was asked about the 12hr job offer and what was happening with this - my partner told them that he decided against it as 1. we would be worse off and 2. he wanted employment that would see him off JSA and 12hrs a week wouldn't do this. He also explained that his usual adviser told him the choice was his to make...
After i called them today for some advice re the email account access i was told that my partners case has been sent to a decision maker as he turned down employment. We explained that this was only turned down as the adviser agreed we would be worse off financially and that he would not be forced/expected to take it and that if he didnt take it he wouldnt face any action - ultimately it was up to my partner how he proceeded.
You can not be sanctioned or made to take a job if you are going to be worse off
Where do we go from here? Im really worried about us losing our money and not being able to pay our bills?
I feel sanctions are a good idea when deserved, but not on the advice of a JC adviser who clearly gave out the wrong advice...
This is outstanding - I have heard it all now!!!We’ve had to remove your signature. Please check the Forum Rules if you’re unsure why it’s been removed and, if still unsure, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0 -
Thanks for the reply
The problem is my partner is 45yrs old and desperately wants to work, so rather than asking for things in writing he just goes along with it for an easy life and also because for the most part he thinks what they are telling him will improve his chances of getting a job.
i guess we should have known how things would pan out after his first appointment when they threatened him with a 30hr a week work placement - to which my partner said that's exactly what i want, i want to work, they replied 'we are not here to find you work'!!!!
The woman i spoke to today who made me aware that his case was being passed to a decision maker confirmed that whatever the adviser has told my partner to do he MUST do, no if's no but's!!!! If the bus fare and printouts mean we have to take £30 or more out of our money each week then so be it - that's what we get JSA for!! She said JSA isn't for you to live on it's for you to use to find employment & if part of that includes your adviser demanding you catch buses daily them you HAVE to do it!!!! She didn't see a problem in the JC having access to my email account - she said that if this is what the adviser wants as proof your partner is seeking employment then he must show this - after all if he's applying for so many jobs he should have no problems showing them the replies he's getting from them about the jobs or the many interviews he's been invited to.
When i explained that he doesn't get replies normally and has only had 1 interview in the last few weeks she said that's not possible if he's applying for around 25-30 jobs per week! My partner has no influence over what happens with his cv once it's sent, if the employers choose to send a thank you email that's up to them 99% dont even acknowledge your email, but on the odd occassion he's received a reply he's gone to the library to print it out and show the advisers - not that it matters they never look at it or even confirm they've seen it - they just nod and he comes back home with any printouts we've paid for.
Quite frankly i was spoken to in such a way that i was made out to be a liar - all she kept saying was 'where are you getting this information from?' When i said your advisers and my partner himself she called me a liar (not straight out) but said things like 'that's not possible or that would never happen'.
In terms of the possible sanction, this was never mentioned to my partner, in fact we only found out by the adviser letting slip on the phone - when i mentioned i wanted to complain she said well that's not what you called about, so i will take a complaint down about your original phone call query....i was told we would have the manager call us back but this could take up to 5 working days, in the meantime we either have to wait for a letter or check our bank account on payday to see of we've had our money stopped!!!!!
It's obvious from my phone call with them that the adviser said one thing whilst making note on his computer detailing something different in order to 'trick' and deceive my partner in to getting a sanction - he was doing above and beyond what they asked of him, he never argues and came away each time full filling their demands.
If my partner had been told flat out he MUST take the 12hr per week job then whether we'd have been worse off and struggled he would have done it - nobody in their right mind wants to have their money stopped. His decision about the job was made purley on the advice given to him by his JC adviser....0 -
If the bus fare and printouts mean we have to take £30 or more out of our money each week then so be it - that's what we get JSA for!! She said JSA isn't for you to live on it's for you to use to find employment ....
NO NO NO
Its the amount the Gov say you need to live on
The letters from the DWP say this
It is not to look for work with although things like phone bill and net etc are expected to come out of this but they cant make you travel and print stuff off and say that the JSA is for this purpose.
'Jobseeker's Allowance (JSA) is a United Kingdom benefit. It is a form of unemployment benefit paid by the government to people who are unemployed and seeking work. It is part of the social security benefits system and is intended to cover living expenses while the claimant is out of work.'We’ve had to remove your signature. Please check the Forum Rules if you’re unsure why it’s been removed and, if still unsure, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0 -
Thanks for the reply
The problem is my partner is 45yrs old and desperately wants to work, so rather than asking for things in writing he just goes along with it for an easy life and also because for the most part he thinks what they are telling him will improve his chances of getting a job.
i guess we should have known how things would pan out after his first appointment when they threatened him with a 30hr a week work placement - to which my partner said that's exactly what i want, i want to work, they replied 'we are not here to find you work'!!!!.
I am 43 and want to work but I tell you I get everything in writing as I am not that silly and not that easy to catch out.
Yes they are NOT there to get you a job at all and seems you have some advisors there who are hell bent on placing a sanction
You need to lodge a complaint to the DWP not the manger of the office he attendsWe’ve had to remove your signature. Please check the Forum Rules if you’re unsure why it’s been removed and, if still unsure, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0 -
When i explained that he doesn't get replies normally and has only had 1 interview in the last few weeks she said that's not possible if he's applying for around 25-30 jobs per week! My partner has no influence over what happens with his cv once it's sent, if the employers choose to send a thank you email that's up to them 99% dont even acknowledge your email, but on the odd occassion he's received a reply he's gone to the library to print it out and show the advisers - not that it matters they never look at it or even confirm they've seen it - they just nod and he comes back home with any printouts we've paid for.
Priceless! On one hand they use the number of jobs advertised on UJM to judge whether you are applying for enough, then they do the same and claim you cannot be applying for that many. I am hitting my target of 10-12 per week but it is a struggle and I live in a fairly densely populated area of the country.
Unfortunately, the vague system the JC employs means that almost all of us will be caught out when they do one of their systematic sweeps to save money. It seems to me it is all about playing the game with them sometimes and the system is pretty much geared to lying anyway so part of me is not surprised that they advised your partner to lie about his employment record. Incidentally, I would have refused to do this because it could jeopardise any job he is offered, as it is tailor-made to allow a company to get rid of him if he does not fit in.0 -
Oh yes and as far as them saying he must be lying about the amount of jobs he applies for if he is not getting interviews, give them a list daily by email and get them to call the company and make them interview him!!
See what they say then.................It will be 'oh we don't have that power' but they think we as job seekers do? What next? Go to the companies office and threaten them if they don't interview you!!??We’ve had to remove your signature. Please check the Forum Rules if you’re unsure why it’s been removed and, if still unsure, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0 -
NO NO NO
Its the amount the Gov say you need to live on
The letters from the DWP say this
It is not to look for work with although things like phone bill and net etc are expected to come out of this but they cant make you travel and print stuff off and say that the JSA is for this purpose.
'Jobseeker's Allowance (JSA) is a United Kingdom benefit. It is a form of unemployment benefit paid by the government to people who are unemployed and seeking work. It is part of the social security benefits system and is intended to cover living expenses while the claimant is out of work.'
What you've said there is exactly what i told the adviser i spoke to, and to be fair she's not the only adviser to have made the statement that JSA is money paid to us that we are expected to use for travel to/from interviews, cv printouts and previous to emailing we were told that envelopes and stamps were to be paid out of our JSA benefit allowance we receive.
When i said the money we receive each fortnight is what the law states we need to live on and i didn't think this included additional and silly stipulations/costs set by and irate adviser she said:
Your JSA is intended for the use of seeking employment - bus fairs and cv and email printouts are part of this and must be taken from the job seekers allowance we are paid each fortnight, she said if we are not doing this or not willing to do this then we should not be entitled to JSA. She said you should be using your JSA for seeking employment!!!!!
She said if this means you have to take money out of your payments each week and effectively see yourself in hardship then so be it - if the adviser has said you have to do it then tuff luck you have to do it - she said if you've nothing to hide there should be no problem in providing the proof....0 -
What you've said there is exactly what i told the adviser i spoke to, and to be fair she's not the only adviser to have made the statement that JSA is money paid to us that we are expected to use for travel to/from interviews, cv printouts and previous to emailing we were told that envelopes and stamps were to be paid out of our JSA benefit allowance we receive.
When i said the money we receive each fortnight is what the law states we need to live on and i didn't think this included additional and silly stipulations/costs set by and irate adviser she said:
Your JSA is intended for the use of seeking employment - bus fairs and cv and email printouts are part of this and must be taken from the job seekers allowance we are paid each fortnight, she said if we are not doing this or not willing to do this then we should not be entitled to JSA. She said you should be using your JSA for seeking employment!!!!!
She said if this means you have to take money out of your payments each week and effectively see yourself in hardship then so be it - if the adviser has said you have to do it then tuff luck you have to do it - she said if you've nothing to hide there should be no problem in providing the proof....
Get this all in writing or they are just trying to scare you!
IF you are going to be worse off you have nothing to lose!We’ve had to remove your signature. Please check the Forum Rules if you’re unsure why it’s been removed and, if still unsure, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0 -
My partner is grateful for all the replies and on monday morning we are going to call the DWP and make an official complaint about the jobcenter/advisers.
We will also ask for everything we are told to now be put in writing. He's also going to ask for a 3rd party to be available at his meetings - this way in future we will not be faced with a 'your word against theirs' scenario.
unfortunately for us we are now stuck in limbo until we know the outcome of the decision maker re his recent job offer...0 -
AP007: your advice has been invaluable to us at the moment - you have given us options/advice which we will certainly follow
I have to be honest, since my partner has been having all these problems with the JC ive been reading the many other posts and yours have stuck out as being very helpful 0
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