Looks like my partner will be sanctioned?

GamerInfo

dktreesea wrote: »

If the government want people to work full time on getting a job, they need only set up real job centres and require people to attend 8.30 to 5pm and apply for jobs all day long, giving out permission slips only to go for interviews, following up to make sure the person actually got there and what time they left (i.e. when they should be back at the job centre). That way they can make sure each job seeker does indeed have an email account and access to broadband for the sole purpose of finding work. Don't turn up one day a week? Lose half your benefit. Including the part for housing benefit.

Draconian? No doubt. But it's better than having the power hungrty monsters at the DWP arbitrarily setting sanctions. At least this way there would be a method behind the sanctions. No such thing as "you're a liar, we don't believe you." That's a ridiculous situation which demeans both the name caller and the one getting JSA.

Unfortunately that's already been tried and tested and failed miserably.

My partner has been made to sit in a building from 8:30am to 4:30pm looking for work and doing work related tasks. Most days he was sat looking at the same job paper for 5 days!!!

They put him through a single health and safety course - 6wks later he was put on the same course he'd just passed and received a certificate through the post for, when he asked 'why am i doing this again i did this 6wks ago and just had my certificate through the post' they replied 'we've got nothing else for you to do - but since you've passed it once you should breeze through it'

As my partner has already been warned he cannot apply for jobs he does not have the experience and qualifications for, if he does he faces a sanction.

Your idea would not work long term - or even short term, because the jobs are not there. if he applies for 'any old job' he will be sanctioned. There are days where my partner can apply for 15 jobs but then there are days where he cannot apply for any because of lack of experience - what would he do sitting at a jobcenter on these days?

What happens to those that fall seriously ill? i myself a few years back had just finished work (i worked part-time in a doctors surgery) was walking home at 1:30 in the afternoon, i was approached from behind and had my handbag snatched by two men who drove off in a car. As i tried to prevent them from snatching my belongings i sustained serious injury to my right arm/hand. The police were called and i gave a brief statement and an ambulance was called, i was taken to hospital checked over and then taken immediately to the police station where i had to be for 3hrs. I was mugged at 1:30pm and didn't get back home until 7:20pm - what would happen in this scenario, would i lose half my JSA and housing benefit and risk losing my home and not being able to pay vital bills because some idiot decided i was an easy target?

Incidentally back then i was claiming JSA as my job was only 12hrs per week, i was signing on for a grand total of £27 of JSA. I was sent to various agencies with the final one telling me i needed to attend their center 35hrs per week mon-fri. I explained i had a job and the times they wanted me there for were impossible for me since my job and the center were 9miles apart and public transport would not have got me from my place of employment to a building 9miles away within 10mins.

I was basically told well we need you here for 35hrs per week, if you dont comply you lose your JSA and all other associated benefits including housing benefit. I was told by the jobcenter that i HAD to do the course but was also told that if i gave up my job i would also lose my JSA - i was in a no win situation, forced to attend a center that meant i couldnt continue my employment, but couldnt give up the employment because i would lose everything - result? I had to seek employment in a job i absolutely hated to to sign off.....

Tell that story to any adviser nowadays and they call me a liar and im told i would not have been made to attend a course if it meant i would lose my job....

Nightranger

dktreesea wrote: »

Even 10 to 12 job applications a week for anyone who is serious about getting work is ridiculously low, let alone any fewer. The whole premise of being on JSA is to make getting a job your full time job. How long would 10 to 12 job applications take to apply for? A day? maybe not even half a day?

It depends on the application process - to email a CV and a specifically edited prepared letter, you could complete the task in 10-12 minutes not counting search time. To follow UJM and click on apply, about the same except you probably have not really applied for anything. However, for individual application forms usually takes a minimum of one hour so 10-12 hours or more plus search time. OK, still not 36 hours per week...

dktreesea wrote: »

Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if it does get a lot worse re sanctions benefits. Something along the lines of if you accept JSA you have to do a 30 hour a week work placement whilst you are looking for a job. That way they will figure you are working so will find it easier to get into paid work, i.e. you will have "work experience". It's , e.g., street cleaning and you're a motor mechanic? Ah yes, well, I don't think they are committed to relevant work experience. This is the "intern" system practised in a lot of professional fields these days.

Indeed, the intern system, volunteering and other free labour schemes are red herrings because they give incentives for the employers to avoid hiring paid staff. Just as pertinent is the fact that the government keeps introducing schemes to cut things such as graduate unemployment but these often end up creating ageism. I like the idea of setting up apprenticeships again but like as not the employers will abuse the system by not employing people at the end of the training period. Sanctions are supposed to be a kick up the backside but mine did not feel like that, it actually felt like utter betrayal, especially finding out that an adviser (a government employee) had lied too.

dktreesea wrote: »

If the government want people to work full time on getting a job, they need only set up real job centres and require people to attend 8.30 to 5pm and apply for jobs all day long, giving out permission slips only to go for interviews, following up to make sure the person actually got there and what time they left (i.e. when they should be back at the job centre). That way they can make sure each job seeker does indeed have an email account and access to broadband for the sole purpose of finding work. Don't turn up one day a week? Lose half your benefit. Including the part for housing benefit.

I would go for that on one proviso - there were enough genuine jobs to apply for. I am lucky enough to live in an area that in theory probably should produce more jobs than anywhere else. What happens if you live in Holyhead, Truro, Skegness, Barrow or any other relatively isolated place? Sadly, even my area does not produce enough vacancies to make this anything but a mind-numbing exercise that would drive people mental...literally.

GamerInfo

My partner has literally begged to be put on a work placement, if only for the extra experience on his CV, but was shot down at the very mention of it......

My partner will take whatever advice, placement, agency etc if it will increase his chances of full-time employment, but with everything he's been told in recent weeks i cant help but thinking the JCP are the ones hindering his ability to do so and placing un-necessary and quite frankly silly obstacles in his way...i suppose that is why up until now he's done everything they've asked of him.

If they are being this hard on someone actively going above and beyond to find employment, how will they treat him if he just starts doing only the minimum required of him?

He really doesn't want to start asking for things in writing, denying access to this and that simply because the last thing he wants is more grief from them, i can see them throwing the book at him (literally) and making an example of him if he does. Unfortunately i think we've come to the point where we have to!!

BurnleyBob

In your initial post you stated that he was repeatedly called a liar at one meeting without complaint and your other posts also suggest he's too submissive for his own good.

outtawork

when l was on JSA l was sent to college for 6 weeks to brush up on my office skills, the JSA tried to sanction me every fortnight till it was finished, even though l signed a foreword directive l even offered to come in after college to sign on but was told no.

GamerInfo

BurnleyBob wrote: »

In your initial post you stated that he was repeatedly called a liar at one meeting without complaint and your other posts also suggest he's too submissive for his own good.

Not sure i understand your post?

Nightranger

BurnleyBob wrote: »

In your initial post you stated that he was repeatedly called a liar at one meeting without complaint and your other posts also suggest he's too submissive for his own good.

Sorry Bob, whatever you meant by this is totally irrelevant.

Nightranger

GamerInfo wrote: »

My partner has literally begged to be put on a work placement, if only for the extra experience on his CV, but was shot down at the very mention of it......

Voluntary placements can help in an area that your partner is interested in rather than waiting to be assigned something. There are lots of NGOs to choose from in child welfare, age welfare, medical research, animal welfare and conservation (both wildlife and building). It should not affect JSA (at least it never has for me) and helps tick the CV along including often giving a new reference source (not all do it but it is good if you can find a volunteer coordinator that does). One day per week is usually enough and it does not have to be a charity shop position, as those are often assigned and they can be a bit sole-destroying from what I have heard.

BurnleyBob

Nightranger wrote: »

Sorry Bob, whatever you meant by this is totally irrelevant.

The relevance was crystal clear. 'He goes along with it for an easy life' is a strategy that has backfired judging by the OP's contributions.

Would you sit there to be called a liar and simply take it? Would you fabricate a CV on someone else's say so? How about begging to work for £2.50 an hour?

GamerInfo

BurnleyBob wrote: »

The relevance was crystal clear. 'He goes along with it for an easy life' is a strategy that has backfired judging by the OP's contributions.

Would you sit there to be called a liar and simply take it? Would you fabricate a CV on someone else's say so? How about begging to work for £2.50 an hour?

You are absolutely right doing as they say and more has done him no favours - going above and beyond his JSA requirements was an error, doing all he can to find employment was incorrect and he's sure getting punished for it.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and if we knew 3wks ago what we know now (thanks to the kind people on here giving up their own time to give advice/help) he wouldn't have gone along with what they told him was a requirement of his JSA.

We are not experts in law, nor are we 'up' on rights when it comes to JSA, if im honest we are a little blinkered when it comes to things like this, my partner has never received this type of treatment before, but as everyone keeps saying, there has been a massive benefit shakeup and certain additional requirements have been implemented.

Maybe ive explained things incorrectly - the JCP haven't out and out called him a liar but they've said it in a round about way - things like 'well how do we know what's written there is actually true' or 'if you've done the jobs as you say then you wont have a problem backing it up and giving us the proof we require'

Getting him to sit there and go through the UJM application/cv submitting procedure and then questioning his actions by saying 'well you said you were taken to a 3rd party website and you filled in an application form/submitted your cv, but for all we know you never visited that site' 'those job details may be false'

Those very statements imply they do not believe him and he has fabricated/lied on his UJM active history pages - hence he's a liar!!!

My partner is more than capable of fighting his own corner and is not someone who will allow others to speak down to him - but when it comes to the JC, they are the people who have the final say on whether we get paid, as they say 'dont bite the hand that feeds you'.

He knows it was silly to even entertain the idea of adding 'fake jobs' to his cv to 'fill in the employment gaps' but in all honesty he thought his JCP was helping him, not forcing him to falsify information that could get him in to trouble. If he didn't change his CV to reflect the 'new additions' you can bet your life the adviser would have bought this up in the next appointment lecturing him on how the gaps in employment are what is preventing him from getting a job.

When you so desperately want to get some self worth back and find employment, its amazing the things you will do....

Im really not sure what you are implying with your statements though????

At the end of the day my partner has gone along with everything they have demanded and has now realised that wasn't the best course of action, he's now going to take the advice given here and get each appointment recorded and or have a 3rd party witness present and will get everything down in writing from now on. We are also going to put in a complaint against the adviser and the jobcenter - if need be we have no problems in getting the CAB and a solicitor involved.

UJM aside - my original OP was more to do with his case being sent to a decision maker regarding his adviser telling him he had a choice when it came to taking a 12hr a week job that would have seen us worse off financially - nothing has been recorded on his account re. the job search proof or other demands they have made.

At the moment our priority is ensuring if he does get sanctioned that we win an appeal based on the fact his adviser gave out false information - all the other stuff his adviser has done is irrelevant until such time they turn down an appeal, then we will provide this information.

Thanks to all who have given us some good advice - i will keep this thread updated as and when any developments happen