Looks like my partner will be sanctioned?

Nightranger

GamerInfo wrote: »

We are not experts in law, nor are we 'up' on rights when it comes to JSA, if im honest we are a little blinkered when it comes to things like this, my partner has never received this type of treatment before, but as everyone keeps saying, there has been a massive benefit shakeup and certain additional requirements have been implemented.

Thanks to all who have given us some good advice - i will keep this thread updated as and when any developments happen

Indeed GamerInfo. I know there have been mitigating circumstances that put me in my situation and if I am totally honest, I made mistakes. The problem as I see it is none of us can see what problems lie ahead (my story would make your toes curl in some parts but has to be partitioned and there lies the bigger problem...). I tried to break out of my background 20 years ago and sat a degree (blue sky thinking) and although to some extents I used it for a relatively short while to good effect, predictably it has come back to haunt be in a time of austerity.

Sadly, the unemployment system is struggling to keep pace with migration and the terminally idle and like trying to get your application read, it is currently a numbers game. It is not quite 'to hell in an handcart' but we are hitting breaking point so the innocent and honest suffer despite the impression that JC and other trolls try to give on this forum.

Ratboy

I've been sent to 'dole skool', to learn job search skills.

On the writing a cover letter 90% didn't have a clue; strange stat? If you are applying for 4-6 jobs a week??

Many people didn't have a completed CV that would be acceptable, no wonder they are out of work. But these are people that send that off weekly.

Most people don't know of where to search for jobs when asked, and 50% don't know how to use a computer/email.

I feel the need to shake these people, and state, the DSS isn't a lifestyle choice, it's a BACKUP, your interest/job interest is where the money is; so fight to get a job, rather than sitting on your hands and let the limited money roll in.

If I sat down with half the class, one on one, then I could get them a job immediately, a 1/4 are adults, that act as infants, some don't have a clue, and the rest job ready, but no job available.

Regarding this 'sanction' process...Everyone on the dole has to go through it, but the DWP won't give stats, because it's illegal. They can't sanction you for no reason, but do.

They then stick you on courses, 'How to apply for a job', methinks if you applied for a job, you already know?

Mainly the younger people say I know it all, this is what I'm used to, an iphone, and listening to ipod, with no interest in reality. The older people, I've done my time, I'm old, who is gonna employ me at my age?

It's a generation thing, youth, uninterested, elder keen to hang on.

Nightranger

Ratboy wrote: »

If I sat down with half the class, one on one, then I could get them a job immediately, a 1/4 are adults, that act as infants, some don't have a clue, and the rest job ready, but no job available.

Really? There are no silver bullets my friend. Submitting job applications is like gambling at the moment - some people are lucky almost immediately but that means some people are just not going to get a break. The solution is to create more jobs but all the money that was released to the banks to bail them out was not passed on for start-up businesses at anything like the rate that was intended. If your land is eroding away in the floods, you plant more trees not dig channels.

BurnleyBob

GamerInfo wrote: »

You are absolutely right doing as they say and more has done him no favours - going above and beyond his JSA requirements was an error, doing all he can to find employment was incorrect and he's sure getting punished for it.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and if we knew 3wks ago what we know now (thanks to the kind people on here giving up their own time to give advice/help) he wouldn't have gone along with what they told him was a requirement of his JSA.

We are not experts in law, nor are we 'up' on rights when it comes to JSA, if im honest we are a little blinkered when it comes to things like this, my partner has never received this type of treatment before, but as everyone keeps saying, there has been a massive benefit shakeup and certain additional requirements have been implemented.

Maybe ive explained things incorrectly - the JCP haven't out and out called him a liar but they've said it in a round about way - things like 'well how do we know what's written there is actually true' or 'if you've done the jobs as you say then you wont have a problem backing it up and giving us the proof we require'

Getting him to sit there and go through the UJM application/cv submitting procedure and then questioning his actions by saying 'well you said you were taken to a 3rd party website and you filled in an application form/submitted your cv, but for all we know you never visited that site' 'those job details may be false'

Those very statements imply they do not believe him and he has fabricated/lied on his UJM active history pages - hence he's a liar!!!

My partner is more than capable of fighting his own corner and is not someone who will allow others to speak down to him - but when it comes to the JC, they are the people who have the final say on whether we get paid, as they say 'dont bite the hand that feeds you'.

He knows it was silly to even entertain the idea of adding 'fake jobs' to his cv to 'fill in the employment gaps' but in all honesty he thought his JCP was helping him, not forcing him to falsify information that could get him in to trouble. If he didn't change his CV to reflect the 'new additions' you can bet your life the adviser would have bought this up in the next appointment lecturing him on how the gaps in employment are what is preventing him from getting a job.

When you so desperately want to get some self worth back and find employment, its amazing the things you will do....

Im really not sure what you are implying with your statements though????

At the end of the day my partner has gone along with everything they have demanded and has now realised that wasn't the best course of action, he's now going to take the advice given here and get each appointment recorded and or have a 3rd party witness present and will get everything down in writing from now on. We are also going to put in a complaint against the adviser and the jobcenter - if need be we have no problems in getting the CAB and a solicitor involved.

UJM aside - my original OP was more to do with his case being sent to a decision maker regarding his adviser telling him he had a choice when it came to taking a 12hr a week job that would have seen us worse off financially - nothing has been recorded on his account re. the job search proof or other demands they have made.

At the moment our priority is ensuring if he does get sanctioned that we win an appeal based on the fact his adviser gave out false information - all the other stuff his adviser has done is irrelevant until such time they turn down an appeal, then we will provide this information.

Thanks to all who have given us some good advice - i will keep this thread updated as and when any developments happen

I was implying that JCP staff with all their experience are easily able to identify someone who's particularly vulnerable to a sanction and the financial hardship it brings and the malevolent ones amongst them thrill at the opportunity to make those claimants' lot especially difficult.

LannieDuck

Is it a specific e-mail account they want access to, or could he just open up another one and use it only for applying for jobs? That way they wouldn't have to have access to your personal e-mails.

DCFC79

LannieDuck wrote: »

Is it a specific e-mail account they want access to, or could he just open up another one and use it only for applying for jobs? That way they wouldn't have to have access to your personal e-mails.

Was just about say the same thing.

GamerInfo

LannieDuck wrote: »

Is it a specific e-mail account they want access to, or could he just open up another one and use it only for applying for jobs? That way they wouldn't have to have access to your personal e-mails.

That is an option but not really the issue - the issue is that my partner is facing a sanction through advice his adviser gave him 2wks ago regarding a 12hr per week job he was offered.

As far as the job searches go, my partner does more than the required amount - so there's no fear he'll ever get sanctioned for that side of things.

We could easily add another email account to the 8 we already have and use, but the point is they have no authority to have or even demand access to that, so why should we provide it? AP007 came up with a fantastic idea of either emailing the adviser direct or copying him in the mails he sends - that would be proof enough without my partner having to give out email accounts or for us to pay stupid amount of money on paper printouts that the advisers wont even look at and will go straight in the recycle bin when he gets back home.

My partner puts down more than enough information for them to check up on should they see the need to 'back up' or 'prove' what's written in black and white.

His regular adviser had no issues with the way my partner was presenting his job search information via UJM - in fact it was him that suggested he do this within his first interview (as my partner wasn't aware he had to add certain jobs to his active history - he assumed once he clicked the Apply button whether it took him off-site or not that info was visible for the JCP to see). The issue of wanting email access and also for my partner to visit each company in person to hand a paper copy CV to them was demanded from an adviser that probably had wayyyy to much time on his hands.... It was also this same adviser who put through for my partner's case to be looked at by a decision maker re. the 12hr per week job that would have seen us struggle financially.

Like i said - we've had some great advice and will be following through with each tomorrow morning - i will update this thread when we know more

Tirian

Sure, they hsve no right to demand access to your personal email account - the ICO woukd have something to say about that I'm sure. But the real question here is what can you *reasonably* do to make if easy to show you've jumped through all the hoops they set. If that means setting up a new email address then the question is, why wouldn't you.

Copying in the adviser might help. But realistically they may not have the time to sift through all thr emails from everyone they see to find yours. I woukd say that it's better to set up the separate email address and either send applications from that or copy it in on your emailed applications. Then you have them all in one place with no searching needed and you can give the adviser access without compromising your own security and privacy. Everyone wins.

GamerInfo

Tirian wrote: »

Sure, they hsve no right to demand access to your personal email account - the ICO woukd have something to say about that I'm sure. But the real question here is what can you *reasonably* do to make if easy to show you've jumped through all the hoops they set. If that means setting up a new email address then the question is, why wouldn't you.

Copying in the adviser might help. But realistically they may not have the time to sift through all thr emails from everyone they see to find yours. I woukd say that it's better to set up the separate email address and either send applications from that or copy it in on your emailed applications. Then you have them all in one place with no searching needed and you can give the adviser access without compromising your own security and privacy. Everyone wins.

The issue of him being sanctioned has nothing at all to do with him showing proof. This is something a single adviser has made up to reinforce their so-called authority over those claiming JSA. If they have every right to access our email accounts, why is this not written within my partners notes? The few people ive spoken to at JCP cannot find anything within his notes from any of the advisers about this which leads me to believe this was another 'scare' tactic used that cannot ever legally be enforced.

My partner has jumped through every single hoop they have set, going so far as to falsify information on his CV - what they are demanding of people is insane and should not be allowed to continue.

My partner's next interview is with another adviser altogether - and this time i will be attending it with him, you can bet your life there will be something else wrong with his job seeking efforts, clearly 30-40 job applications per week is highly suspicious, then again it could be this person REALLY wants to find work!!! Would it hurt for them to think logically?

In our case, i was able to speak to a member of the management team yesterday and they have added some additional information to my complaint to the branch manager (which will also be passed to the decision makers if necessary) and my partner will be contacted in due course. The phone call was the complete opposite to any other adviser we have spoken to in the last week an they were nothing buy helpful and polite and we were actually treated like human beings!!!!

LannieDuck

I'm getting confused by this. You put a lot of different issues in your first post, but when posters try to give advice on them, you're saying they're not really important afterall?

So you're really only looking for advice on the part-time job your OH couldn't accept? I would try to get a statement from your OH's regular advisor who said it was up to him whether he accepts it or not.