Ridiculous charge for just a quote

Dimey

oddjobong wrote: »

ah, hadn't thought of it like that.

I know what you mean by the admission of guilt.

i think I will send him the cheque along with the drawings clearly outlining the mistakes and errors and how they are unfit for purpose.

What makes it more convincing that he's trying to do a fast one is how I haven't heard from the person who drew the plans.

The builder has come barging "saying" the architect wants £900, but yet the builders kind enough to "remove" his consultation fee as goodwill. I haven't heard a word from the architect himself, which makes the whole situation reek of collusion and the two of them splitting it once they get their hands on it.

To give you an idea of the drawings, its 3 or 4 diagrams on two pages, outlining pre and post exterior changes with major mistakes. No planning permission, no in-depth details, just a vague assumption of where windows and doors are.

Now having spoken to friends who know a thing or two, they say such work takes about 2 hours tops. I don't really want to drag this on for weeks so I'm hoping this payoff will keep him happy and we can all move on.

But you haven't made any arrangement with this architect have you?

So the builder has actually said he won't be charging you for his time. Then the architect is the builder's problem. You didn't appoint the architect so you owe the architect nothing.

I'm concerned now knowing the builder has kind of distanced himself from the architect. If you send the token amount eg £50 to the builder you don't want to then find the architect starts chasing you separately.

Maybe you should just keep your head down and don't respond to anyone for a while. See whether the architect makes an appearance.

If you think the £50 is too low, you could find out what the going rate is for 2 hrs drawing work from RIBA and offer the builder that in full & final settlement of his architects drawings and any builder time.

oddjobong

I'm pretty sure the architect and builder are close friends/working partners.

But thanks for the eye-opener. I have email correspondence from the builder stating he wont charge me for his time.

Will mull it over, and get some info from RIBA.

Im trying to find out whether it was the builder or the architect who said there would be a charge for drawings.

Does this matter if the drawings are unfit for purpose?

Dimey

oddjobong wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the architect and builder are close friends/working partners.

But thanks for the eye-opener. I have email correspondence from the builder stating he wont charge me for his time.

Will mull it over, and get some info from RIBA.

Im trying to find out whether it was the builder or the architect who said there would be a charge for drawings.

Does this matter if the drawings are unfit for purpose?

Yes - you need to know who your verbal contract is with. That is the person who has the right to invoice you.

The drawings being unfit for purpose comes after that as an argument to either not pay or part pay the invoice.

Have you received an invoice? Who is it from? What work does it itemise?

As you have an e-mail from the builder saying he won't charge you for his time then I think he's out of your hair.

So that narrows it down to who you agreed would supply drawings....... Could it be a) The builder with the architect working for the builder or b) The architect.

If you haven't received an invoice then wait till you receive one and that should answer the question.

If the invoice for the drawings comes from the builder (a) and you know you didn't have a conversation with the builder about any fee for the drawings if you didn't proceed, then you have no agreement and you can defend not paying.

If the invoice for the drawings comes from the architect (b) and you didn't have a conversation with the architect then again you have no agreement and can defend not paying.

It will only be if the person you had the conversation with (if you admit it) actually invoices you then you would dispute that the drawings are not fit for purpose and reasonably pay say £50 or 2hrs work in full and final settlement.

Phew. Hope you get my gist.

oddjobong

Yes. Thanks dimey, been a lifesaver.

Its gona be a fair amount of mulling over, and definitely looking more towards my favour. All I've got is an email demanding £900 (see what i mean about dodgy), no itemised invoice or any details.

Hopefully it'll work out well, and if I do have to pay one of them off, at least it wont be a complete rip off.

Thanks again!

Dimey

Yes its a bit of a mess but you won't let it happen this way again.

You're doing the right things investigating options and researching fair play.

Once you dig out who your agreement is with and you actually receive an invoice, I think it will all depend on how firm you want to be in either not paying or how much you part pay.

The builder has created the problem really by not being upfront and clear pricewise.

:-)

Doozergirl

I have an architect. She is RIBA. Even her sketches are to scale! For £900, she would do me sketches, then draw out correctly for the Planners and submit it to the council for me. And I'd have a bit of change.

I wouldn't pay someone for anything if I hadn't agreed a price. Especially not an amount that should actually get me planning permission!

£900 for nothing?

macman

oddjobong wrote: »

All that was mentioned was a fee, if the work was not carried out after the consultation process.

There was no fee set, no contract signed. Will ask OH if she remembers any figures being agreed, but I doubt it.

A signed contract is not necessary. You appear to have verbally agreed to an unspecified charge if the work did not proceeed, which is equally binding. What you are disputing now is whether the charge is reasonable, not whether a charge is payable at all.
To state the obvious, you should have established what the charge would be before agreeing it.

System

I would be extremely surprised if the person that did the drawings was "an architect" - i.e. a member of the arb
I have also never heard of an architect (or any other professional consultant) preparing work without an agreement in place with the client, if the builder has appointed them, then the contract is between the architect and the builder - not the op
it's more than likely the guy who did the drawings is a friend of the builder (or even the builder himself) and they are working out-with the bounds of professional practice, trying to squeeze a fair whack of cash out of the op -
op, did anyone come to survey your house to measure up etc?
who is the invoice from?
I would be very vary of making any kind of payment to anyone until you can establish who is invoicing for what - if the builder says it's the architect, speak to them directly and ask if they have any instruction from you - imo it's not even the price that's the problem here, either you said to the builder to get the drawings done without a fee proposal (which is a bad idea on everyones part) or the builder asked someone to do some drawings for him of your house and he is trying to reclaim it - or third option, they are taking the Michael hoping you'll pay for something they knocked out in a quiet evening to try and get a job!

you should post a copy of the drawings too

spacey2012

No judge is likely accept a verbal contract where a written would have sufficed or covered the consideration.
And who is to say who said what.
I would Ignore him until he produces stamped court papers.

macman

spacey2012 wrote: »

No judge is likely accept a verbal contract where a written would have sufficed or covered the consideration.
And who is to say who said what.
I would Ignore him until he produces stamped court papers.

A verbal contract has exactly the same validity as a written one. The OP has already stated on a public forum that they accepted that they would be some charge made. Unless the OP is prepared to committ perjury, their defence can't rely on denying that a contract was ever made.
All they can dispute is the level of charging.