Ridiculous charge for just a quote

oddjobong

So Hello to all, I've been a keen reader of the forums for a while now, but have only just taken the plunge to become a member, and hoping to get help and do the same for others.

We've planned on getting our house refurbished and completely redecorated for a while, and been getting several quotes. (It first started with a new kitchen and now turned into a full house thing...)

We've had a few quotes, and got a recommendation from a neighbour about some great work this builder did for him.

He was happy to quote us, but said there may be a charge for this. No contract exchanged but did provide a brief overview of the works covered. He then had a "colleague" provide us with basic drawings of the house and how it would look afterwards. These were NOT detailed floorplans, but mostly plans for exterior work. Quality of the drawings were shoddy, with wrongly proportioned and innacurate location of existing windows.

We decided not to go ahead, as we didn't think he was best value for money, and told him that we were putting it on hold. Although we are now looking into starting again.

He's now come knocking and demanding that we pay him £1000 for those drawings, and luckily for us, he's not charging us for his quote time. Smells fishier than a fish sauce factory.

The things I want to know are, What can he actually do to enforce payment?

Where I stand on the matter (in a legal sense)?

And what the best plan of action is?

£900 is not fair, and not cheap either for basically some vague details and dodgy drawings.

There is no formal contract that was drawn up.

any help would be appreciated

Dimey

No you shouldn't be paying a contractor to quote. Hopefully you didn't agree to.

But is this a charge for a quote?
This sounds more like a charge for drawings to re-model the house. What did you agree to buy and what did you agree to pay?

If you did verbally agree to pay something for producing the drawings then that is a verbal contract and you are obliged to honour payment but then it comes into whether the drawings are fit for purpose and if they are as useless as you say then you can withhold payment and argue until the company rectify and provide what you requested at the price you agreed.

oddjobong

Thanks for the info.

This is where the issue lies.
We no longer wish to use this builder or his drawings, mainly because of how poor the drawings were.
The man who made up the drawings was bought in by the builder.

I'm not trying to wheel my way out of payment, and am happy to do so provided its a fair price.

But £900 for two inaccurate drawings that weren't done professionally is extortionate. All the builder said was, "there may be a charge for quoting this work if you decide not to go ahead. If you do the works then it'll be taken off the price."

There was no agreement on specific price.

My thinking is to try and come to an agreement in the middle. I think the builder's annoyed at us not taking him up for the work.

Dimey

Both you and the builder should have agreed what the fee would be in advance if you didn't go ahead with the proposals. Since you didn't you are both in trouble. (Next time get all estimates and quotes in writing :-) )

I can see why you don't want to go ahead - wise move.

Here's my crazy suggestion. Tell the builder clearly why his ideas & drawings are not fit for purpose. Post him a cheque (traceable) for £50 for his time and scribble drawings.
Enclose a short covering letter saying you are shocked and disappointed at the amateurish drawings that are riddled with errors and not fit for purpose. That you appreciate he tried his best and clearly spent less than an hour thinking about the plan but you will not be using his services so you enclose £50 for his time & trouble and drawings in full and final settlement.

Sit back and see what happens.
You may get a few more demanding letters but they'll eventually stop or he'll take you to small claims court.
At which point you can defend the case on the basis there was no specific fee mentioned (of course there was a verbal agreement to do the proposal work - right?) and that the drawings are not fit for purpose and not worth £900. Or you can explore what he'd accept to settle the case without going to court.

In the unlikely event it did get to court I reckon the case would hinge on how much time the builder could prove he spent estimating and how many errors there are and what the judge thinks of the scribbley drawings.

I reckon its worth a gamble on calling the builder's bluff with the £50 letter.

oddjobong

Thanks!

An ideal situation would have been a good compromise from both, but it seems like the builder's a bit bitter about not getting the job and trying to squeeze whatever he can from me.

Admittedly there is blame on my side, and hence the position we are in now.

Will give your idea a go and see what happens. Thanks

Dimey

Hope it works for you.

You'll need to be polite but matter of fact and don't let the builder see any weakness otherwise he'll push more.

The builder must have been in this situation before. He'll blag you as far as he can.
Any decent builder will have printed terms & conditions with scale of fees for this type of proposal.

All the best

Dimey

Oddjobong - I've just had a thought. I reckon a legal person may say don't offer any money whatsoever as if you do it may be an "admission of guilt" and might allow the builder to press you for more money.

Its your call.

If you decide not to offer any money then just return the drawings saying they are full of errors and not fit for purpose so you do not want to use the builders services.

As you did agree to the builder drawing up the proposals knowing there MAY be some kind of fee if you didn't proceed then personally I'd go the £50 offer route because that's reasonable. Or maybe do that second after returning first with no money.

Any decent builder would have given you a set of terms & conditions and scale of fees before you agreed to anything. The builder failed to give you anything in writing and its only his word against yours that a fee for the drawings if you didn't proceed, was even mentioned. If you deny it, the builder has no evidence to produce in court (unless there was a witness to the conversation).

Just thought I should flag up this alternative thinking to you OP.

Leif

I'd say you were being sold a pup. However, if I were you I'd contact Citrizen's Advice or whatever the current name is, and talk with them so you know your rights and the legal aspects.

oddjobong

ah, hadn't thought of it like that.

I know what you mean by the admission of guilt.

i think I will send him the cheque along with the drawings clearly outlining the mistakes and errors and how they are unfit for purpose.

What makes it more convincing that he's trying to do a fast one is how I haven't heard from the person who drew the plans.

The builder has come barging "saying" the architect wants £900, but yet the builders kind enough to "remove" his consultation fee as goodwill. I haven't heard a word from the architect himself, which makes the whole situation reek of collusion and the two of them splitting it once they get their hands on it.

To give you an idea of the drawings, its 3 or 4 diagrams on two pages, outlining pre and post exterior changes with major mistakes. No planning permission, no in-depth details, just a vague assumption of where windows and doors are.

Now having spoken to friends who know a thing or two, they say such work takes about 2 hours tops. I don't really want to drag this on for weeks so I'm hoping this payoff will keep him happy and we can all move on.

ValHaller

Dimey wrote: »

Here's my crazy suggestion. Tell the builder clearly why his ideas & drawings are not fit for purpose. Post him a cheque (traceable) for £50 for his time and scribble drawings.
Enclose a short covering letter saying you are shocked and disappointed at the amateurish drawings that are riddled with errors and not fit for purpose. That you appreciate he tried his best and clearly spent less than an hour thinking about the plan but you will not be using his services so you enclose £50 for his time & trouble and drawings in full and final settlement.

I really wouldn't. It would be nice to think that this would be the end of it. But this will probably encourage him to try for more, either with you or someone else

OP, rack your brains as to the amount you agreed to pay for the quotation work done so far. And pay that much and no more. If it was nothing, then pay nothing.

It is not totally beyond the pale for a tradesman to ask for payment for a quote. But if this is done, the amount must be clearly agreed before any work is undertaken.

oddjobong

All that was mentioned was a fee, if the work was not carried out after the consultation process.

There was no fee set, no contract signed. Will ask OH if she remembers any figures being agreed, but I doubt it.