British Housing is rubbish

Guy_Montag

I've just been having a really good look at houses on Rightmove; more & more have floor plans so, not only can you see what the rooms are like in the photographs, you can see just how they are laid out.

I guess I was lucky, since I was brought up in a late 19th or early 20th c. terraced house in Scotland, so I'm used to large rooms and high ceilings. When I look at the size of a typical child's bedroom there's no wonder they just want to wire into their playstation - there's no room to play.

I don't want to turn this into a house prices thread - more of a why do we put up with rooms 7' x 5' being described as a "bedroom". That's what I used to know as a "walk-in cupboard".

Right just to kill one line of discussion before it starts: currently we have built on 90% of our green & pleasant land, with another 5% used for infrastructure - roads, railways etc. That leave 80% of our country green & pleasant, so there is not a shortage of land - that is a myth.

Gingernutmeg

I agree with you - when my partner and I were looking for a flat last summer I was amazed at how tiny most of them were. A lot of the 'double' bedrooms didn't actually have room for anything bigger than a small double bed, and certainly there wasn't enough room for a wardrobe and a chest of drawers too. Most of the flats we saw (especially the modern ones) had absolutely no built in storage space, no wardrobes or cupboards or anything. My area has recently introduced a new recycling scheme, and now I have two large orange bags and a food waste bin in my kitchen, as there's just nowhere else to put them. It's really bad planning not to give homes decent storage space.

It also annoys me that so many homes have no kind of outside space either, not even a balcony. It's especially frustrating when you rent - most rentals don't have tumble driers, and there's nowhere to put one, and then you get told off for drying clothes inside the house!

mr.broderick

Guy_Montag wrote: »

Right just to kill one line of discussion before it starts: currently we have built on 90% of our green & pleasant land, with another 5% used for infrastructure - roads, railways etc. That leave 85% of our country green & pleasant, so there is not a shortage of land - that is a myth.

Nice post Guy.
Can't quite get your maths to add up though chief :T

Guy_Montag

mr.broderick wrote: »

Nice post Guy.
Can't quite get your maths to add up though chief :T

Sort of a typo - I added the infrastructure bit in to be accurate, but forgot to update the sums.;)

dagrowler

interesting comments, I've jsut bought a 1930's semi and while the downstairs is amazing and huge and lovely with loads of outside space the "Master" bedroom is only just 8ft wide which means we can't fit our lovely big bed in there.

Admitedly i still bought and and we have to compromise by getting a smaller bed or sleeping in the back bedroom which is fine, as the area we want to live in most of the houses are the same upstairs.

I'm amazed by the size of UK bathrooms, I grew up in the US and all the bathrooms in our house were brilliant and huge, here they're like sink, bath, toilet and about an inch of floor. That's what made me love our new house - they've extended upstairs so the bathroom is HUGE! :T

TJ27

I deal with licensing for privately rented HMOs. If a room is less than 6.5 square metres we place a restriction on it which says that it cannot be used as a bedroom.

What's that in real money? About 10 feet by 7?

Dead_Eye_Jones

Guy_Montag wrote: »

Right just to kill one line of discussion before it starts: currently we have built on 90% of our green & pleasant land, with another 5% used for infrastructure - roads, railways etc. That leave 85% of our country green & pleasant, so there is not a shortage of land - that is a myth.

I never get that point - hey you raised it - we clearly dont have infinite land do we, so building is not a longterm solution. Id rather we conserverd, sacrificed, reused and recyled now rather than doom our future generations to the alternative.

You also need to consider that there are actually limitations, you yourself mention infrastructure. You cant just allow unplanned urban sprawl, you need to be able to supply water, electricity, food - where is this going to come from?

Will we just import it all? Is all the land suitable for building on? Land types, mountains, hills, etc. What about building resources, availability of labour, the economics of it.

Where will our farm land be? You really believe relying on external imports is the way forward? We need to be reversing our declining farm industry right now.

Dont we want to keep the land green and pleasant.

A bit greeny this final point, but destruction of natural habitat is a real threat to our biodiversity. This has far reaching consequences that are probably not immediately obvious to many. Biodiversity is key in our planets ability to regulate and balance. This is something we are only learning now, perhaps you should read up on James Lovelock, Gaia, Daisy world etc.

Biodiversity is our planets insurance policy and we should want to preserve that even in little ol' UK.

Yes there is plenty of non-built up land in the UK, the myth is thinking you can just sprawl endlessly to solve the housing problem.

Big houses? The reality is that most of the working population of this country has got by in cramped conditions. Why not have 1 family room where everyone spends time together? Doesnt wanting to dump kid in own room suggest parents not wanting to engage with their kids. My folks used to do stuff with me all the time - perhaps I was lucky that they made time for me. Id rather have a smaller cheaper house and parents who were around.

I agree though, they dont make 'em like they used to. Im in a 1930's semi, and it feels so much bigger that the modern equivalents, but in reality I doubt it takes up any more space.

hmm anyway, just my thoughts on the subject
Cheers.

lynzpower

Whos responsible for this though. I point my finger squarely at the developers who cram as many properties on a small patch of land as possible. However, the gov could change building regs etc to make new homes bigger.

Personally, i think we need all the green space we can get or when we have to stop importing food and we need to start growing it properly again, and that as little of it is built on for when our little island is flooded out by rising tides from global warming and the like.

I thnik there should be a decent incntive scheme for those who have a far-to-big-housefor thier needs, i dont know like what, but relinquishing them to the market.

my grandparents live in a massive 4 bed house, sleep in one room, and barely use any of the rest of the space. and then you have families crammed into one room - its jsut not fair.

mr.broderick

Go and move in with them Lynz and relinquish your poperty to the market..

arthur_dent_2

We are currently looking for a new place to live and I would not even consider a new build because although most have reasonable kitchens the other rooms are not big enough to swing the proverbial cat.

I am looking for a nice ex council semi as they are generally speaking good well proportioned houses.

Guy_Montag

Dead_Eye_Jones wrote: »

I never get that point - hey you raised it - we clearly dont have infinite land do we, so building is not a longterm solution. Id rather we conserverd, sacrificed, reused and recyled now rather than doom our future generations to the alternative.

I am all for reducing, reuse, recycling when possible. That includes land, there are areas that need cleaned up & reused - built on. That doesn't include parks & playing fields, though.

You also need to consider that there are actually limitations, you yourself mention infrastructure. You cant just allow unplanned urban sprawl, you need to be able to supply water, electricity, food - where is this going to come from?

Will we just import it all?

I agree, you have to plan for all these things & you can't allow infinite urban sprawl. There are problems with water, food and electricity, mostly due to unnecessary waste (which will go down when they become more valuable). If we were a bit more careful with water there would be no shortages in this country. Electricity is pretty easy to transport & well, food, with that we're a bit f'ked no matter what we do.

Is all the land suitable for building on? Land types, mountains, hills, etc.

Take a walk through the hills & glens of Scotland & you'll see the remains of buildings all over them. We can build most places, not everywhere, I accept, but most places.

Where will our farm land be? You really believe relying on external imports is the way forward? We need to be reversing our declining farm industry right now.

Our farming industry have been poisoning the countryside for long enough, producing stuff that no-one wants or needs just to get their money from the EU. I accept that that is finally changing, but we're talking about losing 5% of our countryside, not concreting over the whole place.

Dont we want to keep the land green and pleasant.

Yes, but at what cost? & for who's benefit.

More importantly for me, destruction of natural habitat is a real threat to our biodiversity. This has far reaching consequences that are probably not immediately obvious to many. Biodiversity is key in our planets ability to regulate and balance. This is something we are only learning now, perhaps you should read up on James Lovelock, Gaia, Daisy world etc.

Biodiversity is our planets insurance policy and you want to reduce that even further?

Where's the biodiversity in large monoculture fields spread with pesticides. See all those fields of rape, are you aware that they are magnets for insects that would normally be pollinating wild flowers, to the point that they are having an impact on wildflower populations?

How about those forests of sitka spruce that you see all over Scotland? There is more biodiversity in an acre of the Sahara desert than you'll find in those (apparently).

I'm very keen on bio-diversity, but that's not what you see in large areas of our countryside.

Yes there is plenty of non-built up land in the UK, the myth is thinking you can just sprawl endlessly to solve the housing problem.

I'm not suggesting endlessly building on it, simply that we could open up a small amount (5%) to improve the quality of housing for all.

Big houses? The reality is that most of the working population of this country has got by in cramped conditions. Why not have 1 family room where everyone spends time together? Doesnt wanting to dump kid in own room suggest parents not wanting to engage with their kids. My folks used to do stuff with me all the time - perhaps I was lucky that they made time for me. Id rather have a smaller cheaper house and parents who were around.

hmm anyway, just my thoughts on the subject
Cheers.

Yes, people do get by in cramped conditions, speaking personally I've lived in a room, 4' by 8' for a year or so (& I had to share that for a couple of months). I got by, but it was a bit !!!!!!. Why should things be a bit !!!!!! when they don't have to be?

As for your & my childhoods - my parents didn't "dump" me in my own room. I too had parents around most of the time (unlike the poor kids of today where both their parents have to work to pay the huge mortgage). The point I was trying to make was that I had my own space, a large room to do with as I saw fit (within reason). I could spread my lego out all over the floor or leave a model railway (I always wanted a scaletrix set, but was never allowed) up for weeks at a time without it getting in anyone else's way.