VOIP, Discussion, questions and answers

Saeed

I have been using the Betamax VOIP providers. I used to used Paypal to credit them as this was the cheapest way, 10 euro credit used to work out at around £9. But Paypal is not showing as a payment option on my account now. Sometimes it shows up and when I click to pay using it, the payment fails at the final stage. Anyone know why this happens?

bluedove

I Use one Betamax Voip proivider, Whilst the rates are very cheap, customer service is non existent, though i haven't had problem with top ups.

buglawton

I trialled Betamax based voip on an 'all you can eat' tariff. Only for a mysteriously large amount of time the plates could not be found on the table. Now happy with Skype World Unlimited.

rogerb

Just done some stats/analysis of my current cheap call solution (18185 via landline) compared to using the VoIP service from Sipgate.co.uk.

The attraction (for me) of Sipgate is they give you a free 'real' local landline, i.e. a number on your own exchange. My broadband router has VoIP phone ports so it was simple to get a 'real' landline for incoming calls at no cost, plug in the regular house phones and use exactly the same as our BT-connected telephones.

Sipgate charge for outgpoing calls, of course, but I wanted to know if outgoing calls via Sipgate would be cheaper than using 18185, because it would also simplify things and remove the need for the Orchid dialler. So this is the result of charting 12 month's call usage via 18185 and the calculating what it would have cost via Sipgate.

Sipgate headline outgoing call rates:
1.19p /minute to UK landlines
9.9p /minute to UK mobiles
No setup or connection charges, but charged in one minute units.
They also offer 1,000 landline minutes for a flat £5.90 per month.

Whereas 18185 rates are:
UK landline calls. 5p per call flat rate (i.e. just a connection charge)
UK mobiles: 5p connection + 6p per minute

Which would be cheaper? Well, it all depends how many calls you make and their average duration. Our household (2 parents + 2 kids, one parent at home most days) may or may not not be typical, although I don't belive it's unusual. The teenager uses his mobile rather than the landline and we don't natter all day & all night on the landline, although calls of 20-30 minutes are not unusual. In all we make about 1,000 outgoing calls a year, i.e. 3 a-day on average. 67% of all outgoing calls (by volume) are to UK landlines, 19% to mobiles and the remaining 14% split between 0845/0870 and international - I've just focussed on landlines and mobiles here.

All calls are September 2009 to September 2010

LANDLINES
Total number of calls = 670
Average call duration = 3:27
Total duration = 2306 minutes

18185 charges = £33.40 (annual cost)
Average call charge =5p (i.e. just the 5p connection cost per call, so 670x5p)

If Sipgate had been used for the same 670 calls:
Total chargeable minutes is higher becasue Sipgate charges in whole minute units , so rounded = 2673
Average call duration = 4 minutes (again, due to rounding up)
Sipgate charges = £31.81 (annual cost)
Average call cost = 4.8
(calculation is 2673minutes x 1.19p)

Sipgate also offers 1,000 landline minutes for a fixed £5.90 a month, which is equivalent to 0.59pence/minute. Over 12 months this costs £70.80 a year. Any month's unused credit doesn't roll over so unless we doubled our landline call volume the £5.90 package is more expensive that paying Sipgate per minute.


UK MOBILE CALLS
Also tracked over a 12 month priod.
Total number of UK mobile calls = 187
Average call duration = 1:46
Total duration = 330 minutes
18185 charges to mobiles = £35.88
Average call charge =19p (includes 5p connection fee)

If Sipgate had been used for the same 187 mobile calls:
Total rounded-up chargeable whole minutes = 440
Sipgate mobile call charges = £43.56
Average Sipgate mobile call cost = 23p

There is no Sipgate pre-pay/bundle package for mobile calls.

Interesting to note that the cost of calls to mobiles represents 40-50% of the annual call spend but less than 20% by volume.


CONCLUSION

Sipgate looks attractive, especially if you like the idea of a 'proper' incoming landline number and the flexibility of physical telephone. Other VoiIP providers don't seem to offer a free number allocation, and on signing up the incoming calls work immediately without subscribing to any outgoing calls or packages.

Based on our current call volume and patterns, we will stick to 18185 via our BT line (we have to keep our BT line to get broadband, of course!). Although landline calls via Sipgate work out marginally cheaper than 18185, the mobile calls are ~30% more expensive

If we doubled our landline call volume, we would probably switch to Sipgate but it seems hard to beat 18185 all round.

One small caveat - calls between Sipgate numbers are free and don't require credit. It would be worthwhile getting the in-laws (to whom we make a significant number of calls), onto Sipgate so that both we and they could call each other for free without using messy Skype-type software or computer-connected devices. Effectively these would become free, dedicated "Bat-Phones" to call up or be called by the mother-in-law. Now that's a scary thought!:D

We could do some fancy call handling + hardware to route daytime landline calls via Sipgate but mobiles via 18185. However, this would requires a small PABX or VoiP exchange.

Sipgate confirms indirect override codes, like 18185, will work via Sipgate, but unfortunately 18185 hasn't enabled the relevant Sipgate-owned number groups on their system. When you try to register a Sipgate number on 18185, it throws up an error message.
Sipgate does allow 0800/0808 numbers (for free) but the 18185 gateway is of no use until 18185 permits Sipgate numbers to be registered! Catch 22!

I hope this info is interesting to fellow MSE Phone-Freakers.

Tally ho

Rog

buglawton

Wish more people posted informative things like this! I'm a very long term 18185/18866 user, but migrated all worldwide landline calls to Skype World Unlimited as 18185 haven't risen to this sort of challenge. I still use 18185 for the odd mobile or 0870 call, though.

Ham_2

I use 18185 a lot and really appreciate the low cost calls to family in Italy & Canada but I am exasperated by the untrue listing of landline calls to Ecuador as 4p per minute which do not exist and have not existed for the last FIVE years. One is told the service is not available "yet" and diverted to another number where calls are charged @ 10p per min. There is no real way of communicating with the 18185 Service that I can find and Money Saving Expert has not followed up my attempts to draw its attention to its perpetuating this misleading advertising either. :money:
Any tips for a frustrated Grandma?
Yes, I already Skype.

buglawton

Looks like you are not on a BT line so cannot dial 18185 but have to use an 0800 number? If so then Ecuador is not listed in 18185's destinations. If you do dial 18185 first (where 18185 lists the 4p), how exactly are you being diverted to a different number?r

buglawton

Well, Skype Out (for making calls to real phones) is not free and pay as you go rates are only so-so. But they have compelling Unlimited pay monthly packages that out-compete almost any other providers.

morajd

Hi

I am trying to configure BT Viyager 220v adsl modem to work with sipgate.co.uk voip provider. I made changes on to the xml file yet doesnt seem to connect. your help is greately appreciated.

Regards

Moraj

waterman3

Am thinking of using Skype Pay monthly for landlines only. Just wondered if this included 0845, 0870 etc numbers or was just of numbers starting 01, 02, 03?

thanks