Garden not registered?

whatamigonnado

Hi there

I wrote several weeks ago that we were considering trying to buy a section of the garden of a rented house which backs onto our own, making ours bigger.

Nothing much has happened, other than meeting with the Landlords agent to measure exactly how much we are looking at (22ft x 27ft), this was yesterday.

Last night, I had a look on the Land Registry site and was slightly perplexed to see that the exact bit of garden we are interested in doesn't appear to belong to the property in question!! I quickly looked at mine, hoping against hope that it might already belong to us, but it didn't:(. (We have lived here 23 years and I clearly remember that when we viewed our house, I made a comment to the seller regarding a tree that appeared to be in "our" garden (there was no fence there) and she replied that that wasn't her garden. Next step was to look at the property which adjoins it head on, but it doesn't belong to them either!

I have left a message on the Land Registry site, but I know that a member of their team occasionally comes on here and was hoping they might advise.

I am really puzzled about this, the only way this garden can be accessed at the moment is from the house of the current "owners", so how could it not be theirs?


Can anybody help please?

Thank you.:beer:

cr1mson

Is the house on an estate? Where we live all the communal areas paths etc are owned by the original house builders i.e. Wimpey however our local council undertake all maintenance. Wimpey will not sell any of this land however this hasn't stopped some land having been 'adopted' by people.

No idea about legal position of this! Could this have happenned in your case?

Richard_Webster

Not sure whether Op simply established that the land in question wasn't in the neighbour's main registered title or that it wasn't registered at all.

If the former then:

1. They may have a separate registered title to this area of garden - sometimes people have more than one title, particularly if land was acquired or registered at different times; or
2. They may have acquired the land before it was compulsory to register in the area; or
3. They may have been in "adverse possession" of the land such that they could acquire a possessory title to it; or be occupying it with the permission of the "real" owner.

If the latter, then points 2,3 and 4 could apply, but not 1.

Sadly buyers of property do not always look at plans their solicitors produce (and sometimes solicitors do forget to show them the plans). The point is that most of the time there isn't a problem but sometimes a buyer client has told me that the garden isn't the same shape as on the plan - there's an extra bit - and at that point we have to go back to the seller's solicitor and ask for an explanation. So it is possible that the neighbour never questioned why he hadn't got a title tot he extra land - or as in 1 above - he simply has a separate title to it.

In practice in this case OP can simply ask the seller whether the garden is registered and when and how the seller acquired it. (The "how" can be important because even in "compulsory registration" areas it was not compulsory to register transfers following a death or otherwise not for value until about 1998.)

whatamigonnado

cr1mson wrote: »

Is the house on an estate? Where we live all the communal areas paths etc are owned by the original house builders i.e. Wimpey however our local council undertake all maintenance. Wimpey will not sell any of this land however this hasn't stopped some land having been 'adopted' by people.

No idea about legal position of this! Could this have happenned in your case?

Hi cr1mson, not sure if it would be considered to be on an estate (the houses were built in 1935 and they are in sort of an oblong block (trying to describe them as well as I can!), there is a small street with approximately 20 houses at the top, then down either side of these houses are 2 quite long streets where the houses have longish gardens which back on to each other and there is no access OUT of the back of them, as you would be in the opposite house garden, if you see what I m mean? Then, at the bottom of these 2 streets is my street, which has only 3 houses on one side (mine being one one of them). It could only potentially be accessed by the houses that surround it, mine included, so the council would not have any access. Really puzzling.

Thank you.

x

whatamigonnado

Hi Richard, thank you for your reply.

The garden doesn't appear to be registered with the house on the title plan - is there a way to find out if it is registered at all? I have tried the Land Registry map search, but zooming in and searching just gives me the details of the houses surrounding it (mine included).

1. If they had a separate registered title for this piece of garden, would this also show up on the Title Plan? When I downloaded it, only one option appeared. (however, on mine, for some reason 2 appear (copy and paste below)
Find a property - search results

Your enquiry has found 1 property- the results are listed below.
You may wish to modify your search or make a new enquiry.

Tenure:
Freehold Price Paid/Value Stated Data: No
Tenure:
Freehold Price Paid/Value Stated Data: No

I only downloaded one of them (I presumed they were duplicates), now I am wondering why I have 2 - will have to download the other one to see I suppose!

The other property was built in around 1935 and I know the current owners bought it in 2000. We have lived here for 23 years and for as long as we have lived here, it has been (we think) belonging to the house

As I say, I am really puzzled and really need to know if I should in fact be dealing with the Landlords / agents of the house in question.

If it turns out, for some strange reason, to belong to the council (although I don't see why it would, as they could not access it) it is likely that they would sell it off to me? Or, is it possible that it is not registered to anybody, nobody has claimed adverse possession and it is just "sitting there", then what?

Thank you for your help.

x

G_M

You need to do a "Map Search" on the LR site, not an address search.

http://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/www/wps/portal/!ut/p/b1/hc5BC4JAEAXgnzQzO-M6He3gugRJGJR7iT1IKLpeot9fdqso5_bge4-BAC0h5yq8YQNnCCne-2u89XOK45KDvbBRIRJTKdscfVY6pmPGKPwE7R_gaK3fdAlOED5YXRboeVvvHB8Mov0C7ztqVsDyxwvgjysQ9tU8dTCFURs_yAPqiyLw/dl4/d5/L0lDU0lKSmdrS0NsRUpDZ3BSQ2dwUkNTQS9ZSVVJQUFJSUlJTU1JS0VFQUFDR09HT0NHSUJKRkpGQkpORE5EQk5ISUVBTExBISEvNEczYUQyZ2p2eWhDa3lGTU5RaWt5RktOUmprS2NhZ21Rb2dnL1o3XzMyODQxMTQySDgzNjcwSTVGRzMxVDUzOFY0LzAvaWJtLmludi8yMzUzMDgyMzA4Mjcvc3BmX0FjdGlvbk5hbWUvc3BmX0FjdGlvbkxpc3RlbmVyL3NwZl9zdHJ1dHNBY3Rpb24vITJmTWFwRW5xdWlyeUluaXQuZG8!/

whatamigonnado

G_M wrote: »

You need to do a "Map Search" on the LR site, not an address search.

http://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/www/wps/portal/!ut/p/b1/hc5BC4JAEAXgnzQzO-M6He3gugRJGJR7iT1IKLpeot9fdqso5_bge4-BAC0h5yq8YQNnCCne-2u89XOK45KDvbBRIRJTKdscfVY6pmPGKPwE7R_gaK3fdAlOED5YXRboeVvvHB8Mov0C7ztqVsDyxwvgjysQ9tU8dTCFURs_yAPqiyLw/dl4/d5/L0lDU0lKSmdrS0NsRUpDZ3BSQ2dwUkNTQS9ZSVVJQUFJSUlJTU1JS0VFQUFDR09HT0NHSUJKRkpGQkpORE5EQk5ISUVBTExBISEvNEczYUQyZ2p2eWhDa3lGTU5RaWt5RktOUmprS2NhZ21Rb2dnL1o3XzMyODQxMTQySDgzNjcwSTVGRzMxVDUzOFY0LzAvaWJtLmludi8yMzUzMDgyMzA4Mjcvc3BmX0FjdGlvbk5hbWUvc3BmX0FjdGlvbkxpc3RlbmVyL3NwZl9zdHJ1dHNBY3Rpb24vITJmTWFwRW5xdWlyeUluaXQuZG8!/

Hi

Thank you for your reply. I have already tried doing this, but it just gives me details of the properties around the garden, including my own.:sad:

Thank you.

x

Land_Registry

whatamigonnado - I suspect this is the same issue as posted on our own site and I have responded to that

The key, as others have posted already here, is to establish the facts around your own title and the 'garden ground' i.e. is it registered or not.

At this stage I believe you have not been able to confirm this fact online and as such a postal application should be completed to be sure.

whatamigonnado

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

whatamigonnado - I suspect this is the same issue as posted on our own site and I have responded to that

The key, as others have posted already here, is to establish the facts around your own title and the 'garden ground' i.e. is it registered or not.

At this stage I believe you have not been able to confirm this fact online and as such a postal application should be completed to be sure.

Thank you - yes you are right, it is the same question, and thanks for the reply on that one as well. I have just downloaded the SIM form and will be posting it tomorrow.

Out of interest, how long does it usually take to get a reply, and does it have to be posted out, or could it be emailed?

Thank you.

G_M

whatamigonnado wrote: »

Hi

Thank you for your reply. I have already tried doing this, but it just gives me details of the properties around the garden, including my own.:sad:

Thank you.

x

Silly question, but I assume you have downloaded the Plans for these various properties, to check the extent of their registered ownership?

whatamigonnado

G_M wrote: »

Silly question, but I assume you have downloaded the Plans for these various properties, to check the extent of their registered ownership?

Hi GM, thanks for the reply.

Yes I have downloaded them (at least the ones that could potentially access the garden from their own (mine, the one opposite the one I am interested in and the one next door to the one I am interested in) the bit of garden doesn't belong to any of them either.


Thank you.