Radiator advice, please!

eastofeden

My kitchen, which backs onto a north facing garden, has always been very cold. In 2007 I had double glazed patio doors and windows put in, and a vertical wall radiator installed.

Compared to my other radiators, it's output has always been very poor. I have had two plumbers look at it and neither can account for it only being luke warm. The boiler is in the kitchen, a valiant combi which keeps our water very hot and the rest of the radiators are fine.

The radiator in the kitchen is a black rather designer looking thing, and I am wondering whether it is more style over substance. I am wondering whether to invest in a new radiator, but am worried that after shelling out on a new one, the same issue might still be evident.

Any thoughts, ideas or suggestions would be very gratefully received!

victor2

The colour of the radiator will make no difference.
Were either of the two plumbers who looked at it experienced with heating systems?
Does it get hot if all other radiators are turned off? If it does, then maybe your system just needs balancing, but I would have thought any half decent plumber could identify that.
If it doesn't get hot, then maybe there's a problem in the pipework just for that radiator or its valves.
I only know what I've discovered from my own heating system, so maybe somebody who is in the business will come along with a better suggestion...

eastofeden

Thank you. I realise the colour won't make any difference, I suppose what I was saying was that whilst it looks good, it is very ineffective. The last man to look at it was a bona fidelity heating engineer with years of experience. He spent a lot of time trying different things sorry to be vague.. But the upshot was no improvement.

Do you advise me buying a new rad?

matelodave

If it doesn't get hot then there's something wrong with the plumbing, valves or the rad itself is blocked or airlocked. Even a designer rad should get hot if hot water is flowing through it even if it doesn't radiate everso well.

There's nothing to suggest that another rad will be any better unless you've disconnected it and made sure that water flows through it and that the plumbing is delivering hot water to it.

You might be chucking money away by getting a new one if the plumbing isn't working properly.

eastofeden

Oh right, I see what you mean. No one has disconnected it yet. Perhaps that is the next step. I would really rather not chuck money away!

malc_b

Looking for balancing radiators on google.

If you think about it all your radiators are connected in parallel. Why should the hot water flow through all radiators evenly? Answer is it doesn't unless you balance them which means adjusting the lockshield valve to restrict the flow to the hot radiators while opening more the valves on those which are lukewarm. And thermostatic valves are not a fix for this. They help but one when the radiator with easiest flow has a warm room, then next easiest flow gets the hot water and so on. You warm the house up one room at a time!

eastofeden

Thanks for that. I will experiment with your suggestions in readiness for the winter season!

G_M

eastofeden wrote: »

...

Compared to my other radiators, it's output has always been very poor. I have had two plumbers look at it and neither can account for it only being luke warm. The boiler is in the kitchen, a valiant combi which keeps our water very hot and the rest of the radiators are fine.

On the face of it you might think "that radiator is closest to the boiler, so should be the hottest".

In reality, it is likely to be the opposite!

The hot water probably leaves the boiler, goes upstairs (to airing cupboard?) and then passes through a 2 (or more likely 3) port valve (which diverts it to central heating or hot taps as required).

Then it comes back down, eventually, to the kitchen radiator. So it may well be the furthest from the boiler.

As suggested, balancing the system should help, unless it was installed wrong and water simply does not get there.

Gloomendoom

G_M wrote: »

As suggested, balancing the system should help, unless it was installed wrong and water simply does not get there.

We have a bizarre situation where we have to keep one of the bedroom radiators turned completely off otherwise we don't get any heat to the hall or sitting room.

malc_b

G_M wrote: »

On the face of it you might think "that radiator is closest to the boiler, so should be the hottest".

In reality, it is likely to be the opposite!

The hot water probably leaves the boiler, goes upstairs (to airing cupboard?) and then passes through a 2 (or more likely 3) port valve (which diverts it to central heating or hot taps as required).

Then it comes back down, eventually, to the kitchen radiator. So it may well be the furthest from the boiler.

As suggested, balancing the system should help, unless it was installed wrong and water simply does not get there.

Your description sounds like a one pipe system, aka the big cast iron radiators found in old schools. The flow then is radiator 1 to radiator 2 etc.. That system has been used for years. Radiators are all in parallel. Yes the flow comes out of the boiler and then to a diverter valve to select CH, CH+HW, HW but then it goes to each radiator separately although they often share the same pipework. If you turn off all radiators except one that one still gets hot showing they are in parallel. If the radiators were in series then turning off one would turn them all off.

Of course even in a parallel system some radiators will be a longer run from the boiler which is perhaps what you are trying to say. But this is why you need to balance the radiator flows. A longer run means more flow resistance so naturally if all the lockshield valves are fully open all the flow goes through the nearest radiator, often the one nearest the airing cupboard where the diverter valve is (i.e. the start of the CH).

You will get some heat loss from the pipes so a distant radiator might not get the same temperature water as a near radiator but the difference is not that much (5-10C?). Lukewarm radiators are a flow issue.

keystone

The majority of this thread has totrally missed the point here.

eastofeden wrote: »

and a vertical wall radiator installed. Compared to my other radiators, it's output has always been very poor.

They always are.

I have had two plumbers look at it and neither can account for it only being luke warm.

Thats because they haven't worked out that these things are very largely

it is more style over substance.

as you have correctly identified.

I am wondering whether to invest in a new radiator, but am worried that after shelling out on a new one, the same issue might still be evident.

Just put a proper one in.

Cheers