Brother borrowed 20k without consent

NANANINANOONOO

4Chickens wrote: »

I have read through and followed this thread on a daily basis and I am soooooo angry at the OPs brother I am spitting feathers.
However, I have been thinking a bit about the nephew and neice. And correct me if I'm wrong but there has been no further contact since the OP revealed what her brother has done to her father.
I would think that the nephew and neice have had a light bulb moment and realised that their gravy train is about to come off the rails.
Who do you think they are going protect/help?
A Grandad aka the victim
B Dad aka the thief
C Themselves aka beneficiaries to their fathers' finances

I would think that B and C are their top priorities now and I would worry that as we all know, money corrupts, they are going to support their Dad in anyway they can even if it means giving false statements etc.

I have no fast solution to this but it might not be a bad idea for the OP to get in touch with the nephew and neice again just for a social chit chat etc, not revealing anything about the situation as it is now but perhaps a little gentle sluething to find out the position of the brother.

If you let folks talk long enough they reveal all sorts of stuff.

What do you think?

OP: My fingers are crossed that you get this resolved and even though it's likely to be a long process, you have our support and best wishes here

Sadly I think your B & C options are probably right and it is in there best interest to go along with their fathers claims that dad knowingly handed over every single penny he had. Dad told them all the evidence is here if they wish to see it but they did not take him up on his offer so one must assume its probably easier for them to deny the truth that way.

Unfortunately the boys are only contactable via their fathers home and phone and the daughter lives 4hours away so none of them are easilly or casually contactable. The fact they have not picked up the phone or rung their grandad speaks volumes and I think in not doing so they have made their position clear. They have probably realised they clearly benefitted indirectly to the money taken so they may also feel some guilt and shame even tho it was not there fault.

NANANINANOONOO

AMILLIONDOLLARS wrote: »

Saying sorry is the hardest thing in the world, in this case its equal to the amount of money involved, the lost of family relationships and his self respect and more. Would you want to face your family and the outside world if this had been you? It will be no consolation but in time he will have to face you all, but first he needs to face himself.

Get the legal part over and done with, then if you feel you want to offer the Olive Branch.

AMD

I take your point sorry is hard but not with my dad, it would be the easiest thing in the world to say sorry to my dad because he is and has always been such and easy open approachable understanding and fair person to his family and everyone. It would not matter what anybody did wrong my dad would be willing to listen and understand which is why my brothers denial has been so hard for my dad to accept. If my brother had talked from the onset yes my dad would have felt all those terrible feelings we have experienced to date but I doubt that my brother would have ever had to face the world or anyone else as dad would have quietly done his best to find some sort of resolution.

buglawton

bargainbetty wrote: »

If your brother has fraudulently closed the share account (forging your Dad's signature etc), then there is a criminal case to answer for.

Get the evidence of the closure. If he did it, then present him a copy of the file, indicating that unless he comes up with and sticks to a repayment plan, which includes the sale of his car and other easily disposable assets, then the documentation will be handed to the police and as soon as the fraud case is concluded a notice of seizure will be placed on his home.

Focus his mind. He stole from your father. From his own father. He needs to make restitution or face the legal consequences.

I'm sorry to be so harsh, but unless your Dad gets very heavy on this, he will never see a penny of it again.

Is this suggestion not technically blackmail?

elsien

The problem with the nieces and nephews probably isn't that they don't care, but that they are between a rock and a hard place. Putting their indirect gain to one side for a moment, this is their dad. They may love and have sympathy for grandad, but unless they have very strong principles, love and loyalty to dad is probably going to win out if they think they have to choose. It's not easy to walk away from a parent, whatever they've done.
That's not to say they're right, but if your brother is doing an ostrich impression and hoping it will all go away, they may well be doing the same.

troubleinparadise

NANANINANOONOO wrote: »

Sadly I think your B & C options are probably right and it is in there best interest to go along with their fathers claims that dad knowingly handed over every single penny he had. Dad told them all the evidence is here if they wish to see it but they did not take him up on his offer so one must assume its probably easier for them to deny the truth that way.

Unfortunately the boys are only contactable via their fathers home and phone and the daughter lives 4hours away so none of them are easilly or casually contactable. The fact they have not picked up the phone or rung their grandad speaks volumes and I think in not doing so they have made their position clear. They have probably realised they clearly benefitted indirectly to the money taken so they may also feel some guilt and shame even tho it was not there fault.

Dear NANANINANOONOO,

I think you have hit the nail on the head here - but if you can, give them a little time to assimilate and respond to what has happened. Their loyalties are torn between a desire to support their father, and their (hopefully) innate moralities.

Their father has let them down too - he has not been the father they would have liked, and his actions have caused a situation they have not chosen, and no doubt are not happy with. And I suspect they feel a level of guilt that they have benefited vicariously, perhaps through his desire to give them financial opportunities through his misuse of your father's money.

Perhaps their lack of contact is to do with distancing themselves from their father's actions whilst they assimilate what has happened, rather than indicating approval or support of his actions.

This is an almighty mess as far as family relationships are concerned, all caused by your brother. If you can find it in your heart to give your nephews/nieces time, I suspect they will come forward to acknowledge their father's duplicity - you know for yourself how difficult you found it to accept what he had done, and they don't have the hard evidence of bank statements etc to prove it.

I am not excusing them, but trying to find a way to lessen your hurt and confusion at what has happened, to reduce the damage to you; I imagine your faith in human nature has been sorely challenged in recent months... :eek:

ILW

NANANINANOONOO wrote: »

I take your point sorry is hard but not with my dad, it would be the easiest thing in the world to say sorry to my dad because he is and has always been such and easy open approachable understanding and fair person to his family and everyone. It would not matter what anybody did wrong my dad would be willing to listen and understand which is why my brothers denial has been so hard for my dad to accept. If my brother had talked from the onset yes my dad would have felt all those terrible feelings we have experienced to date but I doubt that my brother would have ever had to face the world or anyone else as dad would have quietly done his best to find some sort of resolution.

Could be just that your brother is a dishonest, thieving scumbag.

geoffky

I can not believe that no one has mentioned doing a subject access request to the bank....
They have then a fixed time period (40 days) to provide every single scrap of information they hold on the accounts including every transaction..

The Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA 98) gives you the right to access personal information (information about yourself) held by organisations.

Cost £10

Sorry just noticed dancingfairy has said this....

This will uncover the truth however painful to all..

dory22

NANANINANOONOO wrote: »

The problem initially was I could not in my heart believe my brother who I love and have always felt close to had done this, I hoped there was a mistake or an explanation. I then needed to see some positive evidence to be sure before I could consider confronting my brother with such a serious accusation.

When the evidence before us left no doubt it was far worse than we initially imagined and I frankly was an emotional wreck. As much as wanting to shout at my brother I also wanted to find a solution...to maybe salvage something for my dad including family relationships and to maybe help my brother redeem himself. Sadly my brother by refusing contact with anyone or to answer calls has made it painfully clear he has no care for dad or our close family bonds :0(

Frankly if it had been anyone else especially a stranger I feel sure I would have happilly & promptly ripped their head off despite my being 58 and female, with so many painful emotions in the mix it is very different.

have you tried with holding your number when call your brother or calling from an unknown number to him or just turning up at his house to confront him?

hope your dad is ok my auntie j tried to influence my nans will my nan was always on and off meds but my nan knew what was going on and drew up another will without my auntie knowing.
she took money and jewellery that was suppose to be left to my mum and me has been 'missing' since the day my nan died my other aunt ( who the 2nd will was looked after by) found a joint account between my name an my auntie J.
it was heart breaking out of my nans 7 children my auntie J had the most money and was the most greedy, she's lost all but 1 of her siblings and nieces all for the sake of £7000 (a £1000 for each of her children) my nan had to suffer in her last few weeks at home being looked after by j's sister in law who wasn't a trained carer & who my nan didn't like all because j didn't want her 'inheritance' to be spent. money is an evil thing.:(

hope your dad is doing ok.

esmy

I have just read the entire thread and I am shocked and saddened by your brothers actions. My Dad is a similar age to yours and I cannot imagine how stressful this must be for him.

Some posters seem to be urging you to speak with your brother (or do worse). I see he has been interviewed by the police already, and this is obviously still under investigation, so I think you need to be careful regarding any attempts to contact your brother or indeed your nieces/nephews as I would imagine that you are all potential witnesses. It might be wise to seek advice from the police as to where you stand with this as their investigation might take some time.

I think it is also worth discussing with the police how far you and your Dad should go in terms of finding more information about the fraud/theft. The police will have better access to documents etc as part of their investigation and having taken the difficult step of reporting this to them, maybe you need to take a step back to allow you concentrate on caring for yourself and your Dad through this ordeal.

I will keep reading and wish you and your dad strength and health through this most awful experience.

NANANINANOONOO

esmy wrote: »

I have just read the entire thread and I am shocked and saddened by your brothers actions. My Dad is a similar age to yours and I cannot imagine how stressful this must be for him.

Some posters seem to be urging you to speak with your brother (or do worse). I see he has been interviewed by the police already, and this is obviously still under investigation, so I think you need to be careful regarding any attempts to contact your brother or indeed your nieces/nephews as I would imagine that you are all potential witnesses. It might be wise to seek advice from the police as to where you stand with this as their investigation might take some time.

I think it is also worth discussing with the police how far you and your Dad should go in terms of finding more information about the fraud/theft. The police will have better access to documents etc as part of their investigation and having taken the difficult step of reporting this to them, maybe you need to take a step back to allow you concentrate on caring for yourself and your Dad through this ordeal.

I will keep reading and wish you and your dad strength and health through this most awful experience.

This was encouraging to read as it is exactly what is required now no matter what emotions we are feeling. Throughout everything my thoughts have wavered about how why & even if everything really has been as it seems on paper. I confess that not having an explanation from my brother has even made me question my fathers memory at times. I have learnt along this journey that even with all the damning evidence against my brother proving anything beyond doubt is not a done deal. I am continuing to support my dad and doing my best to keep him destracted and his spirits up but now have no choice but to leave everything else down to the police, fretting about what or why it happened & worrying about the outome will change nothing so I am leaving it in their hands and can do no more.

I have made myself ill over all this and whatever the outcome I have lost my family as it was forever, I am so blessed with my own children and their beautiful families that keep me going. Out of the three of us (dad, bro & me) no matter whatever the outcome eg. fraud is proven & dad possibly recoups some of his money or my bro is proven innocent, either way justice may be served for one of them but mine can only remain total heartache & loss.