system flush

Soleil_lune

Cardew wrote: »

I don't doubt that there is sometimes a need for a power-flush, particularly when a new boiler is fitted.

Although I had never heard of the term until 10-15 years ago.

However IMO, and from information all over the internet, I have no doubt that this can be a money making scam by many organisations/fitters, and a way of escaping contractual conditions on maintenance contracts.

Agree 100%! I have heard from quite a number of people that they have been told they need a system flush by their energy provider (in several cases, it just happened to be the same one as I was with,) and when they got a second opinion from an independent corgi-registered engineer, they confirmed a system flush was NOT needed.

I have also known a number of people, who have said that they have been told they needed a system flush, and like with us - the engineer refused to fix what needed fixing until they signed up for a system flush. Some people 'were' bullied into it - we weren't.

As mttylad says, I am sure that it is useful and helpful in some cases, but in other cases it is not necessary. Someone my OH knows who used to work for a certain big energy company said the system flush is the biggest con that they do, they are told to sell it to people even if they don't always necessarily need it, and the cost of £700 is three times more than it actually needs to be.

And bullying/coercing/blackmailing people into having one by saying they will not get their heating back up and running until they promise to have a system flush, is disgusting. And I have heard many people say this has happened to them... people I know in real life, and also people I have spoken to on the internet. As I said before, if you google 'system flush scam,' there are a myriad of posts and threads over many forums about the bad experiences people have had regarding the system flush scam.

As I said, when my OH said we were going to contact trading standards NOW, the engineer backed down. If we had genuinely needed a system flush, why did he back down and panic at the thought of us contacting trading standards?

ollski

There are some incorrect diagnosis that have happened but clearly if you were sold a flush to remedy a problem and it didn't then you would be justified a refund, if it did then it was diagnosed correctly.
There's no bullying, if you take out a maintenance contract with a firm who tell you from day one that sludge and scale and related problems are not covered then you cannot be surprised when they dont cover it.
bg charge that sort of price but it comes with a lifetime guarantee of cover of sludge related faults and reflushes if required.

Soleil_lune

ollski wrote: »

There are some incorrect diagnosis that have happened but clearly if you were sold a flush to remedy a problem and it didn't then you would be justified a refund, if it did then it was diagnosed correctly.
There's no bullying, if you take out a maintenance contract with a firm who tell you from day one that sludge and scale and related problems are not covered then you cannot be surprised when they dont cover it.
bg charge that sort of price but it comes with a lifetime guarantee of cover of sludge related faults and reflushes if required.

Re; the first bolded comment: We will have to agree to differ on whether bullying goes on I'm afraid. I am going on my own experience and that of a number of people I have spoken to about it.

And re the second bolded coment: will they really carry out a lifetime of flushes and sludge related faults? I would bet a year's salary that that won't happen. Moreover, many people will not live in the same property for life, and I bet another year's salary that the energy company in question will not let the guarantee be transferred.

Like I said, agree to differ. No way am I going to change my views on system flushes, after the experience I, and many people I have spoken to have had.

ollski

Yes it's a lifetime guarantee as long as it remains on their maintanance contract is unbroken. It can't be transferred as there would be a break in the contract and why would you care anyway when you move out?
All the information is in a terms and conditions book issued inside the cooling off period of the contract inception.

Cardew

mttylad wrote: »

On the other hand, if you do have a flush then it can help improve the long term efficiency of your system.

Not having sludge in the system can only be beneficial, removing it is not just a case of sticking a hose pipe on and squirting water through it - it needs to be done under pressure.

And I'm no plumber and wont benefit from anyone doing it - its just common sense if you know owt about plumbing.

You may well be correct, albeit I suspect the gain in efficiency will not be marked.

There are two points on your post.

Firstly it should be my decision if I want to spend £700 or so to 'improve the efficiency'. However that is not how it is presented to customers - it is often stated to be a mandatory requirement before a repair on CH system(covered by a maintenance agreement) will be attempted.

It has been posted on here, and other places on the internet, that BG give their fitters a payment for every power-flush they get customers to have carried out.

Secondly there are a number of RGI(ex CORGI) fitters on MSE. Can they inform us when 'power-flushing' became a fashion. I think everyone appreciates that old non-condensing boilers are 'bullet proof'(I have two, one over 25 years old and the other 20+). Nobody I know has ever had a power flush on old boilers.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?2904-British-Gas-amp-Power-Flush

haz25a

ihateyes wrote: »

Well well well.... always looking to blame a company and say its tosh.

Most gas men would recommend a power flush when a new boiler gets installed.

Now to clear something up.... British Gas ( thats who i reckon your taking a pop at, and most other energy companies) do no install boilers under the government scheme. Thats mostly done by smaller companies.

What i can say is i know British Gas cover the one year guarantee for boilers installed under the Scottish Executive deal.

Also if you know anything about insurance, insurers do not cover something that happens over a period of time.... system going sludgey happens over a period of time.

You wont find any company out there that covers a power flush.

Maybe if you win the lottery you can form a company looking after boilers, and you can stand out from the rest by covering sludge and scale.

Lets see how long you last in business.

You're wrong.

I've just had a new free boiler installed by British Gas under the Government's Affordable Warmth Scheme.

I also got a free Power Flush (worth £750 according to them) two years ago when I had my old boiler.

ollski

Cardew wrote: »

You may well be correct, albeit I suspect the gain in efficiency will not be marked.

There are two points on your post.

Firstly it should be my decision if I want to spend £700 or so to 'improve the efficiency'. However that is not how it is presented to customers - it is often stated to be a mandatory requirement before a repair on CH system(covered by a maintenance agreement) will be attempted.

It has been posted on here, and other places on the internet, that BG give their fitters a payment for every power-flush they get customers to have carried out.

Secondly there are a number of RGI(ex CORGI) fitters on MSE. Can they inform us when 'power-flushing' became a fashion. I think everyone appreciates that old non-condensing boilers are 'bullet proof'(I have two, one over 25 years old and the other 20+). Nobody I know has ever had a power flush on old boilers.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?2904-British-Gas-amp-Power-Flush

Hi, just to clear up a couple of points. A flush of the system is totally your choice but if you want your maintenance contract to continue to cover sludge related faults it must be done after you have been made aware that is a problem in your system. If you decide not to and just want to continue with non sludge related faults covered then that's fine. May be worth noting that there is no requirement for the flush to be carried out by the company providing the maintenance contract.

Bg do give the fitters a reward for selling as do almost all retail businesses, it's not the Devon house your banker gets, or the Maldive holiday your doctor gets but after tax it may afford a pint and a bag of pork scratchings.

Power flushing was initially developed by bg due to the increasing numbers of combi boilers becoming installed and very quickly failing due to dirty system water. It has just developed on from there.

boingsaidzebedee

The original post was not to discuss the benefits or otherwise of power flushing.
The op has had a new boiler fitted which is now giving a series of problems.
It seems the installer did not clean out the system or fit a Magnaclean prior to fitting the new boiler and his plumber has now diagnosed debris-silt-rust and general detritus in the system as being the likely culprit in the premature failing of the new boiler.

The question is did the boiler installer follow industry guidelines for fitting a new boiler and if not could this be the reason the new boiler has become a deceased or poorly lump of metal littering up his house.
For a new boiler to be a non functioning boiler within days there has to be a reason----Though fitted under the government scheme to provide free boilers should not the installer have considered that a silted up system was not ideal to fit a new condensing boiler which are rather temperamental when faced with anything less than a perfect working environment.

ihateyes

haz25a wrote: »

You're wrong.

I've just had a new free boiler installed by British Gas under the Government's Affordable Warmth Scheme.

I also got a free Power Flush (worth £750 according to them) two years ago when I had my old boiler.

Ok.... and who did you contact for the quote British Gas?

Under Warmfront, the customer contacted Warmfront and went from there..... warmfront then passed it to one of the accreditted installers...

The same applies for boilers under the Scottish Executive agreement.

The affordable warmth scheme works differently to the above 2 schemes.

Cardew

boingsaidzebedee wrote: »

The original post was not to discuss the benefits or otherwise of power flushing.
.

Agreed, but like many threads on MSE the discussion 'migrated' - to the tactics used to sell power flushing in this case.